Subject: »NEWS AROUND THE WORLD

so NATO and EU stands on rebels side?

At least I stand on rebels' side.

nice...I wonder how you´ll be speaking when somebody will go attack your country because of demonstration against government...wait...ah sure, Belgian doesn´t have any...

We don't attack Libya because there are demonstrations, we attack Libya because Khadaffi is shooting at the demonstrations, which is an offence of human rights.

And don't start about Belgium, you don't know our situation. And btw, we don't have government for 250 days, but we were one of the first countries to send airplanes; we have a caretaking government and a parliament ...

another explanation...probably you know what happens in WWII with your country. Hitler asked you for moving his army to Netherlands through your country, you said NOT, so he occupied throughout your territory...can´t see parallels to what is happening in Libya???

No, I don't see the parallels at all. Hitler asked us to let German army through to attack Paris. And we said no, because we are forced to, because at that moment, Belgium was still official a fully neutral country (which we had to be in 1830, if we wanted our independence). I don't see the parallels with Libya, please explain them to me.

I agree, democracies is the worse form of government, except those that we already tried....
Forcing even on a willing countries our way of life isnt smart at all, after world war I we gave it a go and it didnt end well for any one.
We gave it a go, in The west bank and Gaza, a place which is more modern than most arab nations.
And I gave much more situations where if failed, can you show me a place in history where it worked?
Do I need to remind you there isnt a democratic state in this region?

BTW not only democratic elections at the Gaza brought disaster to Palestinians, it also made Gaza much more Muslim, like it happened else where.

But your missing the point.........................
Revolts through out the middle east and Africa has almost no relation to democracy, they are seeking for better life, less poverty, who cares about the right to speak when you have nothing to eat?

It's very simple. One group of people fighting with another group of people in Libya. I do not exclude the possibility that it was prvokatsiya from outside.

That's not proof ... that's one country (Russia ...) that denies what the West says. Maybe because the West and Russia aren't really good friends ... If you call this proof, I have hundreds of western sources of proof there were Libyan air strikes; just search a western media source, and you'll find it.

We have to show to the people of Middle-East and Northern Africa we are willing to help them realize a democracy if they want that.

you´re speaking like son of a Bush...we are going to give them democracy no matter if they want or not...how many people in a whole nation is willing to change a system and getting "dictator" down? Do you know any Libyan in real life? I know one, he is studying medicine in our country...once we were speaking about political matters and I asked how it is with Ghaddaffi, he said "yes, he was a terrorist in the past, but now he is a responsible president" ... the same guy is really disappointed with approach of EU and believe he never return to his homeland when rebels will win...why? because they are much more danger for civilian than Ghaddaffi...

Only because he is weak, not because thats the right thing to do.
I agree with you completely about politics, and I am just saying most chances that all we do is simple.
Replacing Qadaffi with another dictator or worse, EU and USA will place a nice puppet who will let them control oil interest.

It depends from which tribe he sprouted

First of all I want to say I don't discuss with Israeli or Palestines any more about your conflict; recent history on this forum has shown this always leads to insults and inappropriate behavior from both sides.

And indeed, democracy is for from perfect, but imo it's also by far the best system.

And yes, democracy has failed in Middle-East, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try it again if they want democracy.

And they believe they'll have a better life if there is democracy, why shouldn't we help them with this.

have you seen any video where Libyan army is shooting into CIVIL demonstrators??? civil means without rifle machine in their hands I haven´t...and how many people in Libya is willing end of Ghaddaffi? give me exact number or percentage!!! haven´t? then your talking here isn´t much more than ramblings

Russia isnt a friend of the west but dont think your media is truth telling and doesnt have agendas themselves. 70% of what is reported on west media are ordered and paid for.

you´re speaking like son of a Bush...we are going to give them democracy no matter if they want or not...how many people in a whole nation is willing to change a system and getting "dictator" down? Do you know any Libyan in real life? I know one, he is studying medicine in our country...once we were speaking about political matters and I asked how it is with Ghaddaffi, he said "yes, he was a terrorist in the past, but now he is a responsible president" ... the same guy is really disappointed with approach of EU and believe he never return to his homeland when rebels will win...why? because they are much more danger for civilian than Ghaddaffi...

Please don't insult me, Bush is the worst president in the history of the States ...

And I say we only have to install democracy if they want that, so not "no matter if they want or not". I don't know how I can make this more clear.

Do you know any Libyan in real life?

Nope, do you? That's not relevant. Play the ball, not the man. One guy doesn't speak for a whole country. Even if you knew 100 Libyans who talk like that. Examples can't proof anything, they can only deny a theory. That's a basic rule of discussion.

yeah I know, there are 8 main tribes in Libya and Ghaddaffi is the only person which managed them live in one country peacefully...after his deposing, there is really great risk of civil war in a country. Then you´ll see, what massacre means...

Russia isnt a friend of the west but dont think your media is truth telling and doesnt have agendas themselves. 70% of what is reported on west media are ordered and paid for

I think for myself. I don't believe everything is said. However, if almost whole my world (and with this I mean the west) says Khadaffi is shooting his own people, I am willing to believe that. And nice you put a percentage on that; you have proof for that I guess.

I have no reason to engage in a discussion about Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Since these topic concern Muslim nations the middle east is as good example as any.

Again, they are not fighting for a democracy, I wish all of those states wanted democracy, its philosophically proven that democracies seldom goes to war. but the conditions in here wont allow it.
We have to learn from the past, show me one time it worked in Muslim country, on the other hand I can show you much more times where going for democracy bought a worse regime.

have you seen any video where Libyan army is shooting into CIVIL demonstrators??? civil means without rifle machine in their hands I haven´t...and how many people in Libya is willing end of Ghaddaffi? give me exact number or percentage!!! haven´t? then your talking here isn´t much more than ramblings

You don't have to see something to know it's true. Have you seen Belgium? How do you know there is no government? That's as stupid as your question.

and how many people in Libya is willing end of Ghaddaf

Impossible to know, but apparently, you 'know' the opposite because you know one Libyan.

We have to learn from the past, show me one time it worked in Muslim country, on the other hand I can show you much more times where going for democracy bought a worse regime.

I can't. I have admitted democracy has failed in Middle-East. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't help them if they want democracy. Yes I know I've said this a lot, but you ask the same every time.