Subject: »NEWS AROUND THE WORLD

I'm saying, that Svoboda (and probably other right-wing groups too) has a political program, to oppress minorities, and Timoshenko started smaller restraints, when she was in power. I don't know how many Polish minorities are there, and what's their situations.

But I have read an interview with a Svoboda politician, and he said, they don't have any problems with the Hungarians, but they will restrain their rights, because Ukraine is only for Ukrainians, and they are proud of it.

Bandera is still a national hero for a big part of Ukraine, that is my problem. My problem is that many of them say openly that they want to take back the Volhynia etc. from Poland because these are 'Ukrainian territories'.

You consider that a threat? Come on, Ukraine (whoever is in charge) will never invade Poland. Even the far-right leaders are smart enough to realize that. Just like the Iranian leaders know they will never attack Israel, because they know what the consequences are.

But then again, I can understand that Polish people do not trust any guarantees that Poland will be defended if it were to be invaded. History showed that such a statement is not always put into practice :p

You consider that a threat? Come on, Ukraine (whoever is in charge) will never invade Poland.

It doesn't matter if it's a real threat. It matters how they feel about Poland and what they would like to do.

If Hitler didn't win elections but still would want to do what he did during WW II, would that make him less of a beast? I don't think so.

I'm not saying I'm afraid of them, I'm saying that they are not friendly towards Polish people.

Even the far-right leaders are smart enough to realize that.

Yes. But even if they won't be able to pursue their foreign agenda, they will still be able to influence the life of Polish minorities in Ukraine.

But then again, I can understand that Polish people do not trust any guarantees that Poland will be defended if it were to be invaded. History showed that such a statement is not always put into practice :p

Yup :p

To be honest I wouldn't be shocked if Poland would be left alone had the Russia incorporated Ukraine and invaded Poland. Who needs World War 3? Better let them take Poland. They won't want more, right?

:p

I'm not saying I'm afraid of them, I'm saying that they are not friendly towards Polish people.

Yes. That group is not friendly towards Poland. The point is that that doesn't mean the Ukrainian state is not friendly towards Poland. (Unless the executive power would explicitly say such nonsense.)

Yes. But even if they won't be able to pursue their foreign agenda, they will still be able to influence the life of Polish minorities in Ukraine.

The protection of minorities in Eastern Europe indeed is a problem. Look at the Roma in different countries. Look at the Hungarians in Slovakia.

Yes. That group is not friendly towards Poland. The point is that that doesn't mean the Ukrainian state is not friendly towards Poland. (Unless the executive power would explicitly say such nonsense.)

The Ukrainian state refused countless times to recognise this crime against humanity and refused to condemn Bandera, OUN and UPA. It's the same thing if you ask me. Imagine Merkel refusing to condemn Hitler's crimes.

And the right wing leaders openly scream the chants that praise Bandera.

The protection of minorities in Eastern Europe indeed is a problem. Look at the Roma in different countries. Look at the Hungarians in Slovakia.

Yes, a big one.
I don't have a big sense of hm...nationality, I don't really care more for ordinary Polish people in Ukraine than ordinary Hungarians, or Russians, people are people.

But if I see a new threat to a minority [and right wing Ukrainians ARE a big threat...] then I see no problem in talking about it.

to levitate: plase could you let some of tghe eastern users to inform us ( yes all of the are biased, i see borkos from poland giving information, my friend from Hungary, and some others..)

all info is biased but maybe they know what is happening more than you and me toghether

You can´t apply belgium morality in Ukraine because you fall analysing the situation

I think this is some of those discussions someone should be quite and listening ( also for my part too )

salutes! ; P

i also see 2 parts, one pro-russian and pro-goverment

the other one, the demonstrators, really heterogeneus, with some of them wanting more freeedom and some of them far right nationalist so im confirmating this feeling reading here

The Ukrainian state refused countless times to recognise this crime against humanity and refused to condemn Bandera, OUN and UPA. It's the same thing if you ask me. Imagine Merkel refusing to condemn Hitler's crimes.

This is a question about collective responsibility. IF (and only if; I don't know if this is the case) the Ukrainian state was involved in those crimes, then indeed the Ukrainian state should apologize and should accept its past. If the Ukrainian state was not involved, those apologies would have no meaning.

And the right wing leaders openly scream the chants that praise Bandera.

But as far as I know (but if you can show me differently, fine), they are not a major force (or none at all) in the Ukrainian state.

Yes, a big one.
I don't have a big sense of hm...nationality

Me neither. I don't give a shit about nationality. That's why I'm in favor of abolishing nationality/citizenship. People should be protected and accepted, regardless of their nationality or citizenship.

But if I see a new threat to a minority [and right wing Ukrainians ARE a big threat...] then I see no problem in talking about it.

Well yeah. I condemn every threat to individual rights.
(edited)

plase could you let some of tghe eastern users to inform us

I am.

You can´t apply belgium morality in Ukraine because you fall analysing the situation

I'm not applying Belgian morality. There is no Belgian morality. I'm applying my morality. And I hate this kind of relativism in morality. I stand for my morality, in every single case, regardless of place and time. Wrong is wrong.

I think this is some of those discussions someone should be quite and listening

I guess you mean quiet :p I disagree. One must listen, indeed. But one must never be quiet. Listen and discuss.

(edited)

Venezuela is on a very big mess.

There are indeed many admirers of Bandera but its not about killing Poles and Jews but more about people dying for Ukrainian independence. According many experts were votes for Svoboda just protest votes - showing disgust in politics than realy believing in radical ideas.

I suppose that the possible result could be:
- west poor Ukraine under EU control, EU gets new poor market and pigs countries and ESFS will have one new member :-)
- east Ukraine will be under russia control or they will join russia. They will prosperous more cos they will not have to support poor west but they will lose half of country...

who will be winner ??

Putin, of course.:)

I suppose that the possible result could be:

Given your poorly level of thinking, I don't see why that would be of any interest to the rest of us.