Subject: »NEWS AROUND THE WORLD

I'm not going to discuss things that aren't relevant, like the if's you where talking about. We only know what happened in the Ukraine, so we can discuss that situation but not hypothetical situations.

lol irelevant?

what about the support to the nazi who occupying the Kiev?
is that relevant enouph?

Nuance is not really your cup of tea, is it?

why?
whats your point?

In contrary to the points you're trying to make, I think that's rather obvious.

explain yourself or stop troling

my points is obvious.

that the ethic from both sides its hypocritical and the true reason is only about money and interests

If you can't understand English, that's not my problem. You know what nuance means, do you? You're talking in extremes. Like calling the new Kiev government nazi's. It is wrong (the opposition against Yanukovych is partly neonazist, yes, but that doesn't make the entire new government nazist), both morally and factually.

I know some of the Greeks are calling everyone a nazi nowadays, but it's a bad habit.

And according to international law, Crimea should have the right on self-determination. Of course, Russia is violating the international law by sending additional troops to Crimea. But that doesn't change the Crimean right on self-determination. Even if the rationale behind a possible secession is money and special interests, Crimea still has the right to determine their sovereignty. If they want be a part of Russia - for whatever reasons - it is their right to do so.

One could argue that Russia itself does not respect the right on self-determination of other nations (like Chechnya), but that doesn't give Ukraine a safe conduct to not accept Crimea's right to determine their own future. Even if that future is within Russia.

And let's face it, international (geo)politics is always about money and special interests.

And let's face it, international (geo)politics is always about money and special interests.


see that we agree?




It is wrong (the opposition against Yanukovych is partly neonazist, yes, but that doesn't make the entire new government nazist), both morally and factually.

the new prime minister:




and the most important ministers etc so its not only partly nazi and far right its about almost all the new gov and nazis in the streets are in charge

I remind you and this video: http://www.youtube.com/v/mlKEF5uoU_I

so dont tell me about moraly and factualy...


is sad that real democrats in Ukraine are aside from far rights and nazis but is true.
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Such pictures prove nothing. Only videos can show a nazi salute. Even Netanyahu has pictures on which he seems to be performing such a salute, but one cannot possibly suspect Netanyahu from neonazist ideas. So if you have a video of him performing the salute, fine. But a picture alone is not enough.

Nothing on the Crimean right on self-determination?

is sad that real democrats in Ukraine are aside from far rights and nazis but is true.

Well, democracy is a concept that is misunderstood very often. What you mean is what I call a 'social-liberal democracy' (=democracy in which some basic rights, some freedoms and rule of law are largely respected).

But a democracy itself can be very inhumane and cruel. It can be authoritarian. It can even be openly racist, and still it could qualify as democratic if such a racist regime is what the people want.

Look at Switzerland: a true democracy, but with some terrible measures taken by the people (ban on minarets, the recent vote on immigration, ...). (Not that I'm saying Switzerland is inhumane and/or cruel.)

Democracy is fundamentally not a good idea. But that's a very different discussion, and quite frankly, one I'm not interested in having with you.

Democracy if not perfect but is by far the most fair system.
I am ot suprised that you dont find it good idea! ;)
Swiss is the most democratic state and nothing wrong is their new law after the referendum.
Its their own right what will be the imigration law in their state and no one forcing imigrants to go there if they dont like.

about videos:

I dare you to take my gun!' AK-47-toting Ukraine far-right leader tells officials:




Voiding Ukraine’s minority languages law ‘wrong’ – Luxembourg FM

The decision of the new Ukrainian authorities to repeal a law giving regional rights to minority languages is a bad move, said Luxembourg Foreign Minister Jean Asselborn. He also criticized a bill which would ban Russian media in Ukraine.

Ukraine’s Nationalists Complain About Russia While Violating UN Charter On Minorities

you can easily search yourself about the most members of the new gov in Kiev and you ll find out that they are mostly nazis

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The use of nazi for far-right and racist politicians is wrong. It shows you make no distinction between far-right racist politics and what happened in Nazi-Germany. Hell, it's not even nuance. There's a Grand Canyon between those two things.

The moment they start ethnic cleansing and the extermination of certain minorities, THEN you can start calling them nazi's. Before that: please do not misuse a historically loaded term like nazi. You can call them far-right, racist, fascist, ... But not nazi. We should not reduce nazism that easily.
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lol
whatever

they didnt have the time for ethnic cleansing in a week only for laws depresing the minorities
they are neonazis

The moment they start ethnic cleansing and the extermination of certain minorities, THEN you can start calling them nazi's.

Witch such attitude, you should be studying history.

'You can fight the murdered when he kills someone, not when he raises his weapon'

All they did right now is pass a law that oppresses minorities (in the use of their language etc.). That is not enough to call the Kiev government nazi's.

Edit: I thought I made it clear enough that I wanted to say there is a big gap between what the Kiev government (or better: some members of that government) are proposing and saying and what the nazi's did. 6 million Jews, anyone? Millions of Poles, gay people or other 'outcasts'. Let's not make comparisons between those extreme inhumane atrocities and the opinions of some retards in Kiev.

@Jim: You do know there's a difference between neonazism and nazism, right?
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I am putting it in the right perspective

You are talking about communism and something which happened on another continent 30 years ago, during the cold war with an dictator as the result ..... yeh ok, the right perspective :| 'Sooo many' things the same as the Ukraine situation right now.

A few weeks ago, some demonstrators in Kiev were asking for a better, more authentic democracy. Since then, things escalated (openly fueled by foreign governments) and to defeat Yanukovych they have given up democracy altogether in the process. Meanwhile, rich parts of the country are virtually controlled by Russian forces.

First of all, thing are not even settled down yet and you expect order already. Reminds me of another person on this forum who also always expect things instantly have to be better. So please don't be that dumb also, 1 of those is enough on this forum.

And second, Russia is trying to take control, but the EU and US told Putin to repect Ukraine's sovereignty. So this is also still going on. Don't make it look like as if all is already done while nothing is sure at the moment. This is a good test for the EU and US, how to deal with maniac Putin.

www.theguardian.com - live update


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'Sooo many' things the same as the Ukraine situation right now.

My friend, you have the abstraction capacity of a snail :)

@Jim: You do know there's a difference between neonazism and nazism, right?

wrong!
no difference at all!

the neonazis admire the nazis they copy the ideology and the actions of the nazi, they want to do the exact thinks...


so the only difference is that the neonazi dont have the power to make the same thinks with the nazi, in any case they have the power they make the same old thinks...