Subject: »NEWS AROUND THE WORLD

Good posts!

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Good post, I agree 100%. IMHO we need strong military reaction and economical sanctions. Otherwise this will be not last occupation made by Putin. We are maybe weaker than Russians, but our talks and appeasement are just fuel for his ambitions.

There are surely some analogies like Austria, Munich pact, occupation of Baltic countries, Czechoslovakia 1968 etc. The main differeence from Kosovo is based on fact that Serbs were actually fighting with rebels by shooting for months in Yugoslav independence wars. I hardly see any national interest in this, because it had costs and no benefits. If there would be not any military action, it would be now probably an example of western cynism and hipocrisy.

Otherwise I am not againist Crimean referendum. In free deciding, with free voting without weapons aimed on loyal Russians, Ukrainians and crimean Tatars. When will be Ukraine stabilised and will have elected government. But now Crimea lost their autonomy by allowing unknown militants with Russian flags occupy their buildings.
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Otherwise I am not againist Crimean referendum. In free deciding, with free voting without weapons aimed on loyal Russians, Ukrainians and crimean Tatars.

The problem is, if this is ok then all governments can start sending a lot of their people to parts of other countries, and then after a few years or decades these people can start asking for referendums to become part of their 'former' home countries :/ That's a great way to take over rich parts (oil and gas fields, harbors, industrial areas, etc) of other countries, like Russia is doing in the Ukraine.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, it's not such a bad idea, Belgium has a nice harbor in Antwerpen, close to the Dutch border ;P
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Its theoretical problem. Hardly done by non-totalist countries, most issues should be handled by referendum criteria. Of course Russian agression made it complicated.

most issues should be handled by referendum criteria

Sounds nice in theory, but in reality it will be a lot more difficult and often not practical at all. It would take ages to implement a number of new laws for example. You vote to give a person/party the power to represent you, that's much more efficient instead of having referendums. Ofcourse referendums can be used once in a while, but too often will only slow things down.

And in the case of the Ukraine, there shouldn't be any referendum, or maybe in 10 or 20 years from now, but absolutely not now that Russians / the Russian army is occupying parts of that country. And if a referendum is used, all Ukrainians should be able to vote if a part of their country can become Russian or not, because it's their country also.

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IMHO we need strong military reaction and economical sanctions.

- Military reaction? Against Russia? No offense, but are you out of your mind? Throwing oil into the fire is not a good idea.
- Economic sanctions: well, the Russians can just close the pipeline. No more oil for Europe. So long the economic sanctions. That will never happen. (Why do you think some countries want Turkey to be taken into the EU? The Nabucco pipeline.)
- Throwing Russia out of the UN? Never going to happen. Only country that was ever thrown out was the Republic of China when it was being replaced by the People's Republic of China.

Putin is the only guy with a plan here. The West is looking at it like a cow. They stare at it and they have no idea whatsoever how to react. They have no effective measure that they can take.

(I'm not defending Putin. He's terrible. I'm not known for being a pragmatist, but let's look at the strength of the positions of Russia and the West.)
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And if a referendum is used, all Ukrainians should be able to vote if a part of their country can become Russian or not, because it's their country also.

I'm sorry, but that is plain stupid. You don't organize a vote in the entire UK on Scottish independence. You don't organize a vote in all of Spain on Catalan independence. You don't organize a vote in the entire Soviet Union on Estonian independence. That would (have) be(en) totally absurd.

There is not any will to sacrifice something from west, thats fuel to oil.

What would be problem if there would be troops in Crimea and Navy in sea? Its only adequate reaction.
Oil for Europe is problem but not big one. Russians need money and they have not proper infrastructure to China.
Throwing Russia out of UN is overeaction and not very useful.

Putin was dehumilated and angry because Yanukovich but nobody expected military action. Of course ideally would be if Russians would invade crimea parliament and the UN forces stationed there would tell them they are late. But otherwise its very simple philosophy that best defence is attack, brutal attack of bully on small child. Nothing genious.
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What would be problem if there would be troops in Crimea and Navy in sea? Its only adequate reaction.

Well, you would consider it an adequate reaction. And most people in the West would. (I wouldn't, but then again, I'm not like most people :p)

But you know for sure that Putin - and by extension, Russia - will not see it that way. There is a big chance that Putin will send more troops to Crimea. And even if he doesn't, he won't be threatened by some Western coalition. Putin knows they will never attack or invade Crimea. So what's the point really? Either you get more Russian soldiers on Crimea, or nothing. No solution there.

Europe needs oil more than Russia needs the money. I'm pretty damned sure about that. Economic sanctions are only given to genuinely evil regimes, like North Korea or Iran. Russia is - even with this Crimea invasion - far away from that.

But otherwise its very simple philosophy that best defence is attack, brutal attack of bully on small child.

Seriously, attacking the Russian Army is not a real option. It would endanger the European Continent. Nobody is going to risk that.

Economic sanctions: well, the Russians can just close the pipeline. No more oil for Europe. So long the economic sanctions. That will never happen. (Why do you think some countries want Turkey to be taken into the EU? The Nabucco pipeline.)

Oil and gas make up over 50% of Russia's government revenue. Close the pipeline and they lose a lot of money. Look at the sanctions on Iran - nobody was allowed to buy their oil and it crippled their economy.

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Its hypotetical scenarios, if would west would have will to execute them, Putin would never propose attack. I agree that hes not madman like Hitler was. My argumenting about hypothesis would be not important, too long and not much interesting for anyone. In short, Its still useful having some real power near. Real troops who can use force and defend themselves even when supposed to be only for blocking. They should stop some Russian actions even by only observing. The more the better.

Regards oil, it would be realy devastating for Russia, Europe has some reserves and options. It would be painful but definately worthy and moral, if would be sanctions targeted on right persons. In contrast, its horrible that newest no-economical proposals are more targeted on normal Russian civilians who want to see, work or study in West and on Russian private companies.

I do not see Iran any more evil than Russia. Why its far more evil?
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Obama is indeed a mass murderer and has committed crimes against humanity. Let that be clear.

NOT clear to me how is is Obama is a mass murderer.

And according to international law, Crimea should have the right on self-determination.

What is your source of international law for self-determination?

our childeren will be reading about Putin's 1 march 2014 attack against Ukraine which we just witenesed, like we read about Hitler's 1st of septemper 1939 attack on Poland.

I liken Putin invasion of Crimea to when Hitler took over Austria in 1938.
If Putin takes over eastern Ukraine, I would liken that to Hitler taking the Sudentenland (of Czechoslovakia) in 1939.