Subpage under development, new version coming soon!
Topic closed!!!
Subject: »NEWS AROUND THE WORLD
Russophobia, that's a good one :P I can do that to, Naziphobia, dictatorphobia ;)
Mariano Rajoy, Spanish Prime Minister, immediately said that the referendum would be considered illegal and that "any discussion or debate on this is out of the question"
Unfortunately for the Catalans he is right in the first part of this sentence, as for the second part.. he is wrong in my opinion, debate is always better that ETA like organisations... and fortunately in western europe it is possible, not easy but possible, its up to Catalan "lobbying" in the Spanish parliament for them to agree to a referendum, just like it was up to London, to agree to the Scotish referendum.
(edited)
Unfortunately for the Catalans he is right in the first part of this sentence, as for the second part.. he is wrong in my opinion, debate is always better that ETA like organisations... and fortunately in western europe it is possible, not easy but possible, its up to Catalan "lobbying" in the Spanish parliament for them to agree to a referendum, just like it was up to London, to agree to the Scotish referendum.
(edited)
you obey the king ? it is so hard ? you can't build a fair system with sadistic people
I don't understand your point...
...a fair system is based on law, which is decided by an elected parliament on behalf of the people, "a king" or nowdays the president is there to supervise the parliament, and vice-versa, especially to defend a nation's constitution, and so that neither abuses their powers. I dont see your point, if I understand in correctly... as it applies to history and historial conception of all ruling "the king", not so much to 2014.
As for the British queen, I think she is a nice lady, who is earning Britain a lot of money, so in her current role she a positive "enterprise" by all means, as she serves her people, key word: service - like the army or the police, plus I think she is a good reference piont for a nation, far better than god, or the all powerful party, still... all that doesn't mean I am pro monarchy.
In this case, the King of spain, or more the spanish parliment is only defending the constitution of spain, for all the spaniards, from all the regions. For example the 41 votes against leaving spain, in case of catalonia (a region of spain) whatever and however for eg.Putin wuld thing otherwise ;-p.
(edited)
...a fair system is based on law, which is decided by an elected parliament on behalf of the people, "a king" or nowdays the president is there to supervise the parliament, and vice-versa, especially to defend a nation's constitution, and so that neither abuses their powers. I dont see your point, if I understand in correctly... as it applies to history and historial conception of all ruling "the king", not so much to 2014.
As for the British queen, I think she is a nice lady, who is earning Britain a lot of money, so in her current role she a positive "enterprise" by all means, as she serves her people, key word: service - like the army or the police, plus I think she is a good reference piont for a nation, far better than god, or the all powerful party, still... all that doesn't mean I am pro monarchy.
In this case, the King of spain, or more the spanish parliment is only defending the constitution of spain, for all the spaniards, from all the regions. For example the 41 votes against leaving spain, in case of catalonia (a region of spain) whatever and however for eg.Putin wuld thing otherwise ;-p.
(edited)
Unfortunately for the Catalans he is right in the first part of this sentence, as for the second part.. he is wrong in my opinion, debate is always better that ETA like organisations... and fortunately in western europe it is possible, not easy but possible, its up to Catalan "lobbying" in the Spanish parliament for them to agree to a referendum, just like it was up to London, to agree to the Scotish referendum.
Well yes, it is unconstitutional under Spanish Law. But the breakaway of Belgium from the Netherlands was unconstitutional too under Dutch Law. And the Dutch independence from Spain was unconstitutional too. A breakaway state is by definition 'unconstitutional'. One cannot simply expect the Catalan people to wait until the Spanish government gives its blessing. It probably will never do that.
Charles proposes that there should be a referendum in all of Ukraine to determine what should happen with Crimea. That's like saying all the people of the UK should vote on whether Scotland should become an independent nation. It makes no sense at all. (Belgium is probably the only country in the world where the demand for autonomy or independence is much bigger in the majority group rather than in the minority one.)
Well yes, it is unconstitutional under Spanish Law. But the breakaway of Belgium from the Netherlands was unconstitutional too under Dutch Law. And the Dutch independence from Spain was unconstitutional too. A breakaway state is by definition 'unconstitutional'. One cannot simply expect the Catalan people to wait until the Spanish government gives its blessing. It probably will never do that.
Charles proposes that there should be a referendum in all of Ukraine to determine what should happen with Crimea. That's like saying all the people of the UK should vote on whether Scotland should become an independent nation. It makes no sense at all. (Belgium is probably the only country in the world where the demand for autonomy or independence is much bigger in the majority group rather than in the minority one.)
Crimea, is a completely different story, as it was invaded.
...as for history there plenty of examples of independence wars which were unconstitutional in that sence, buy they were almost always bloody wars from the onset, which sometimes went one way.. and sometimes the other, in my view every situation should be taken separately. Just like London allows the Scotish referendum later this year, its not inconcevable that through peaceful means, Catalonia could convince Spain, still I believe greater autonomy laws would have the same effect, maybe I am wrong on that one, as here the Spanish side its the one thats not interested in the debate at all, which is unfortune to say the least,
My only point was that first the parliment of a country needs to agree to a referendum (if we don't want to use force, from eaiter side), only then the people of that region can decide, in a normal manner, I though that was obvious.
(edited)
...as for history there plenty of examples of independence wars which were unconstitutional in that sence, buy they were almost always bloody wars from the onset, which sometimes went one way.. and sometimes the other, in my view every situation should be taken separately. Just like London allows the Scotish referendum later this year, its not inconcevable that through peaceful means, Catalonia could convince Spain, still I believe greater autonomy laws would have the same effect, maybe I am wrong on that one, as here the Spanish side its the one thats not interested in the debate at all, which is unfortune to say the least,
My only point was that first the parliment of a country needs to agree to a referendum (if we don't want to use force, from eaiter side), only then the people of that region can decide, in a normal manner, I though that was obvious.
(edited)
a king" or nowdays the president is there to supervise the parliament, and vice-versa, especially to defend a nation's constitution
above constitution is your life , God supervise your life
above constitution is your life , God supervise your life
Just like London allows the Scotish referendum later this year, its not inconcevable that through peacful means, Catalonia could convince spain, still I believe greater autonomy laws would have the same effects.
Well, we have seen the openness of Madrid to talk about Basque or Catalan independence. If Madrid doesn't even want to talk about it, than a secession is the only option.
My only point was that first the parliment of a country needs to agree to a referendum, they the people of that region can decide, in a normal manner, I though that was obvious.
Yes that was obvious. And my point is that it is plain stupid. It's like the Americans would have asked to the London parliament if they could organize a referendum on independence.
If your logic were to be applied, the only way to change borders would be war. As no central government would allow a minority to become independent (apart from the British maybe). See what Spain does. They are almost forcing the nationalists into the use of violence because of their stubborn behavior towards minorities.
Well, we have seen the openness of Madrid to talk about Basque or Catalan independence. If Madrid doesn't even want to talk about it, than a secession is the only option.
My only point was that first the parliment of a country needs to agree to a referendum, they the people of that region can decide, in a normal manner, I though that was obvious.
Yes that was obvious. And my point is that it is plain stupid. It's like the Americans would have asked to the London parliament if they could organize a referendum on independence.
If your logic were to be applied, the only way to change borders would be war. As no central government would allow a minority to become independent (apart from the British maybe). See what Spain does. They are almost forcing the nationalists into the use of violence because of their stubborn behavior towards minorities.
@stanes, I honestly don't know what you are on about.
Yes, god is a concept, that people agree their constitutions on, and?
Yes, personally I am not a globalist totalrianist ;-p, I prefer humanism, rationalism, consistency! and respecting constitutions.
Yes, god is a concept, that people agree their constitutions on, and?
Yes, personally I am not a globalist totalrianist ;-p, I prefer humanism, rationalism, consistency! and respecting constitutions.
I am not saying how it should, I am only saying how it actually works.
Unfortunatly it happens almost always by force, not by dialogue.
And that is exactly why Scotland is closer to independence than Catalonia, and Catalonia is closer to their independence than for example Basque country, because, (apart from Putin) most people in the western world see this as a peaceful process, which with time leads to compromise just like in the Scotish case.
(edited)
Unfortunatly it happens almost always by force, not by dialogue.
And that is exactly why Scotland is closer to independence than Catalonia, and Catalonia is closer to their independence than for example Basque country, because, (apart from Putin) most people in the western world see this as a peaceful process, which with time leads to compromise just like in the Scotish case.
(edited)
i am not try to change anybody, i can't...but i have something to say, you are not right or realist
... dude, I am only saying how it works, its not my opinion, so I cannot by right or wrong, that's irrelevant. Still don't see your point, at all.
(edited)
(edited)