Subpage under development, new version coming soon!
Topic closed!!!
Subject: »NEWS AROUND THE WORLD
Wel you can say a lot about the Americans but unlike Putin they Americans will dispear from the country the invaded after some time. Putin just takes over control ;)
Besides that are you really justifying something bad beause "America" does bad things too ? Does not really seem like a smart way to justify something...almost childish.
And about Tymoshenko you are already spreadin more propaganda, just like you are accusing others.
If you were true and neutral in this case you would have mentioned the possible tie with Putin. There are strong signals Tymoshenko has friendly ties with Putin and with publicing this video she wants to win some anti-russian votes from west-Ukraine.
Read carefully, I am not saying this is the 100% truth also could be possible that this was no set up between Putin and Tymoshenko. But atleast mention both option, else your just another propaganda child for Putin...And like I said earlier, it does not matter for which side you are making propaganda because bad is bad my friend ;)
Besides that are you really justifying something bad beause "America" does bad things too ? Does not really seem like a smart way to justify something...almost childish.
And about Tymoshenko you are already spreadin more propaganda, just like you are accusing others.
If you were true and neutral in this case you would have mentioned the possible tie with Putin. There are strong signals Tymoshenko has friendly ties with Putin and with publicing this video she wants to win some anti-russian votes from west-Ukraine.
Read carefully, I am not saying this is the 100% truth also could be possible that this was no set up between Putin and Tymoshenko. But atleast mention both option, else your just another propaganda child for Putin...And like I said earlier, it does not matter for which side you are making propaganda because bad is bad my friend ;)
Wel you can say a lot about the Americans but unlike Putin they Americans will dispear from the country the invaded after some time. Putin just takes over control ;)
where did it happened?
I want again to say that is very sad to see people that die to become slave in EU.
I think someone sold them the tale of a freedom that EU is no more.
This does NOT mean I think become a Russian colony is way better.
This does NOT mean even being a USA colony is better.
I would like to talk with people that understand that the ideal solution doesn't exist.
Is Impossible for ukrainian people to become free for real.
Is impossible to get a fair situation for those pro-russian people in crimea that doesn't want to live in a EU/USA ruled country.
Is impossible to convince Ukrainian pro-EU manifestants to allow Russia to rule them.
So. looking at those facts.
What is the best solution that is possible to reach?
Ukraine split. If this process is done with peace (allowing people to move before, during and after, not using a enemy vs enemy dialetic, etc) it can lead to a not-so-bad situation.
The same solution lead not to the same result if you persecute it with other ways.....
now, look at those ukrainian/EU/USA/Russian leaders and ask yourself, who's doing its people interests?
where did it happened?
I want again to say that is very sad to see people that die to become slave in EU.
I think someone sold them the tale of a freedom that EU is no more.
This does NOT mean I think become a Russian colony is way better.
This does NOT mean even being a USA colony is better.
I would like to talk with people that understand that the ideal solution doesn't exist.
Is Impossible for ukrainian people to become free for real.
Is impossible to get a fair situation for those pro-russian people in crimea that doesn't want to live in a EU/USA ruled country.
Is impossible to convince Ukrainian pro-EU manifestants to allow Russia to rule them.
So. looking at those facts.
What is the best solution that is possible to reach?
Ukraine split. If this process is done with peace (allowing people to move before, during and after, not using a enemy vs enemy dialetic, etc) it can lead to a not-so-bad situation.
The same solution lead not to the same result if you persecute it with other ways.....
now, look at those ukrainian/EU/USA/Russian leaders and ask yourself, who's doing its people interests?
Slave in EU...Don't you think that its weird, Greece got into trouble, its EU's fault! Italy felt into the same pit, its EU's fault! Every time someone hits the ground, its the EU's fault! You just can't realize that you spend more money than you earn. Italy debt as % of GDP: 136.72%, Germany tries to wake you up, you gotta cut the expenses cause this shit is unsustainable, and you go "fcking nazis, fcking EU"...
thank you expert in economy, and give thanks i am not taking part in spanish economy because if i have any power to make things, 1st would be like iceland: fuck the debt. 2nd , if Eu pressures leaving the euro , and bye bye
PS: who needs Spain if you have Romany or rumpil´s land
PSS: maybe if your national mates were not looking for job on south europe then unemployment wouldnt be so hard so public finnnaces would get haelthier in some months...but well, you are the expert here : )
PSS: maybe if your national mates were not looking for job on south europe then unemployment wouldnt be so hard so public finnnaces would get haelthier in some months...but well, you are the expert here : )
Yes, you gotta be an economy expert to realize that you're spending more than you earn. Fuck the debt, right...who cares.
oh yeah, I am spending more of what i earn. Me personally. Absolutly true.
LOL
LOL
Jesus, i wont continue this debate if you think that Greece, Italy and Spain's problems have been created by east-european workforce...
as you said some simple stupit things, then i said some too. Wasnt it the game?
BTW workforce? dont make a joke about it, dont make a joke about it ( me talking to myself)
diamanti I think you are missing a lot of things, especially historical context - which explains a lot of current problems.
The main issue here is the order of things that happen, a that is exactly what russian propaganda focuses on, to mix the issue of "who started" it. Only yesterday I wrote to my friend that russians didn't want political dialogue since 21 feb, he sent me back a link which only proved my point, it was a statement from russia that they are willing to peacful political dialogue with EU and ukrainian leaders, only he missed the date of the article, russian wants to talk, since 23 march :-] surprise, since they already achieved what they wanted (so far). Russia blatantly knew that what they are doing would be questionable, so they stopped political dialogue when it suited them (1-21 march mission to steal crimea), only making two short statements through Yanukovic, using him like a puppet, as even Putin earlier (important) said that Yanukovic's career is over, over... but not over if he keeps telling the world what Putin them to hear... :-]
I think it is the most important to keep some things separate, things like: (A) internal affairs in one country (ei.Ukrainie), or (B) a open international world crisis, with military movements.(which was started on 1 of march 2014 when russian troops crossed the boarder of Ukraine = 100% invasion (which killed only few, and kidnapped only few ukrainians soldiers, and stole by force Urainian military bases). But to the piont... order of things:
for example: (propaganda)
1. your argument above: "Tymoschenko wants to kill those damn russians", uuuu! a terrible Ukrainian facist? right? - wrong. A corrupt pro-russian government put her in jail unjustly, broke her spine in that jail (or something similar) just because she became too threatening to the state within state the Yanukovich was establishing, taking peoples freedoms away (literally - like the right to protest), and then a week after she was let out - Yanukovich fled his post, fled his post, and russian military invaded (invaded by overwhelming threat and less but still force) ukrainian bases in ukraine = invasion, only later to reappear in russia a week later to justify, a foreign army attack, it is nonsense, even if the is still in charge, he did not have this kind of authority.
I find it also funny, how you accept the "referendum" in crimea, and you call the invasion "so called" :-], as the exact opposite is true, if you only kept things in order. The crimean "refferendum" is not a reaction to maidan, its a pre-planned part of the russian invasion, which turnend this crisis to a global one, from a internal Ukrainian one, on 1st march.
2. "poles are pissed of at russia since... 1500..." well yes and no, its more recent and far far more brutal than that (more brutal than Hilter by miles) if you know history, a short recap: Poland seized to exist for 123 years because of the 3 partions in which russia took part, and only this century Poland was attacked twice by Russia, killing hundered thousand poles in ww-I, and then millions more in ww-II 1939... after joining hitler, only to declare themselves the winners in the end, and liberators from facists :-], to in fact occupy Poland for most of this century (1945-1989).
In both world wars, russia used the same strategy they are using now... find someone to take the blame (in both instances Germany/Prussia "facists") only to do even worse than the aggressors later, and grab territory to occupy.
3-rdy, all the other "pro-russian" arguments are even dumber.. keeping in mind this was a internal ukrainian conflict, later escalated by russian military...
so how did kosovo come into it...? its a russian officall argument (Ławrov) of someting similar to: if other steal, we can too... if others kill, so can we... :-D precisely.... no, and that's were the historical context comes in, again. Russian invaded and killed enough this century, to be changing boardes only 20 years after their regime collapsed. The argument that NATO invaded Kosovo, is a completly different argument, and in no way it should be used to justify russian provocations if not full out aggresion - which by the way happen as we speak/write, everyday this month on Russian-Ukrainian boarders.
ehh...
as for the "Reductio ad Hitlerum" that is exactly the state of mind that Putin is trying to instill in russians via media control and RT : only not realising the EU map has actually changend since 1943. (also that is why it comes up so much)
if you look at this from that kind of perspective, then hell yeah! Putin is a swell guy, and a saviour, who liberated Crimea from those f*** facists... only that view is slightly demented. Still this seems to be their actual argument... facists...
(edited)
The main issue here is the order of things that happen, a that is exactly what russian propaganda focuses on, to mix the issue of "who started" it. Only yesterday I wrote to my friend that russians didn't want political dialogue since 21 feb, he sent me back a link which only proved my point, it was a statement from russia that they are willing to peacful political dialogue with EU and ukrainian leaders, only he missed the date of the article, russian wants to talk, since 23 march :-] surprise, since they already achieved what they wanted (so far). Russia blatantly knew that what they are doing would be questionable, so they stopped political dialogue when it suited them (1-21 march mission to steal crimea), only making two short statements through Yanukovic, using him like a puppet, as even Putin earlier (important) said that Yanukovic's career is over, over... but not over if he keeps telling the world what Putin them to hear... :-]
I think it is the most important to keep some things separate, things like: (A) internal affairs in one country (ei.Ukrainie), or (B) a open international world crisis, with military movements.(which was started on 1 of march 2014 when russian troops crossed the boarder of Ukraine = 100% invasion (which killed only few, and kidnapped only few ukrainians soldiers, and stole by force Urainian military bases). But to the piont... order of things:
for example: (propaganda)
1. your argument above: "Tymoschenko wants to kill those damn russians", uuuu! a terrible Ukrainian facist? right? - wrong. A corrupt pro-russian government put her in jail unjustly, broke her spine in that jail (or something similar) just because she became too threatening to the state within state the Yanukovich was establishing, taking peoples freedoms away (literally - like the right to protest), and then a week after she was let out - Yanukovich fled his post, fled his post, and russian military invaded (invaded by overwhelming threat and less but still force) ukrainian bases in ukraine = invasion, only later to reappear in russia a week later to justify, a foreign army attack, it is nonsense, even if the is still in charge, he did not have this kind of authority.
I find it also funny, how you accept the "referendum" in crimea, and you call the invasion "so called" :-], as the exact opposite is true, if you only kept things in order. The crimean "refferendum" is not a reaction to maidan, its a pre-planned part of the russian invasion, which turnend this crisis to a global one, from a internal Ukrainian one, on 1st march.
2. "poles are pissed of at russia since... 1500..." well yes and no, its more recent and far far more brutal than that (more brutal than Hilter by miles) if you know history, a short recap: Poland seized to exist for 123 years because of the 3 partions in which russia took part, and only this century Poland was attacked twice by Russia, killing hundered thousand poles in ww-I, and then millions more in ww-II 1939... after joining hitler, only to declare themselves the winners in the end, and liberators from facists :-], to in fact occupy Poland for most of this century (1945-1989).
In both world wars, russia used the same strategy they are using now... find someone to take the blame (in both instances Germany/Prussia "facists") only to do even worse than the aggressors later, and grab territory to occupy.
3-rdy, all the other "pro-russian" arguments are even dumber.. keeping in mind this was a internal ukrainian conflict, later escalated by russian military...
so how did kosovo come into it...? its a russian officall argument (Ławrov) of someting similar to: if other steal, we can too... if others kill, so can we... :-D precisely.... no, and that's were the historical context comes in, again. Russian invaded and killed enough this century, to be changing boardes only 20 years after their regime collapsed. The argument that NATO invaded Kosovo, is a completly different argument, and in no way it should be used to justify russian provocations if not full out aggresion - which by the way happen as we speak/write, everyday this month on Russian-Ukrainian boarders.
ehh...
as for the "Reductio ad Hitlerum" that is exactly the state of mind that Putin is trying to instill in russians via media control and RT : only not realising the EU map has actually changend since 1943. (also that is why it comes up so much)
if you look at this from that kind of perspective, then hell yeah! Putin is a swell guy, and a saviour, who liberated Crimea from those f*** facists... only that view is slightly demented. Still this seems to be their actual argument... facists...
(edited)
What is the best solution that is possible to reach?
first of all, let Russia know that it won't be tollerated that they buy presidents who then sell the country to Russia, and that chaos and uprisings aren't in any way a valid reason for Russia to invade countries to 'protect the ethnic Russian minority' ... ofcourse it's not because of gas, oil and lebensraum ... These crimes should not be profitable for Russia, they have to be punished for it.
That's the best solution.
Ukraine should not be split in 2 because that's what Russia wants, then the crime is profitable and that should never ever happen. Besides, it was a ridiculous Russian propaganda 'referendum', not an Ukraine referendum so not a single political decision should be based on that illegal 'referendum'.
(edited)
first of all, let Russia know that it won't be tollerated that they buy presidents who then sell the country to Russia, and that chaos and uprisings aren't in any way a valid reason for Russia to invade countries to 'protect the ethnic Russian minority' ... ofcourse it's not because of gas, oil and lebensraum ... These crimes should not be profitable for Russia, they have to be punished for it.
That's the best solution.
Ukraine should not be split in 2 because that's what Russia wants, then the crime is profitable and that should never ever happen. Besides, it was a ridiculous Russian propaganda 'referendum', not an Ukraine referendum so not a single political decision should be based on that illegal 'referendum'.
(edited)
Besides, it was a ridiculous Russian propaganda 'referendum', not an Ukraine referendum so not a single political decision should be based on that illegal referendum.
When women were allowed to vote for the first time in Belgium, that was illegal too (because it was unconstitutional). So what?
When women were allowed to vote for the first time in Belgium, that was illegal too (because it was unconstitutional). So what?
Slave in EU...Don't you think that its weird, Greece got into trouble, its EU's fault! Italy felt into the same pit, its EU's fault! Every time someone hits the ground, its the EU's fault! You just can't realize that you spend more money than you earn. Italy debt as % of GDP: 136.72%, Germany tries to wake you up, you gotta cut the expenses cause this shit is unsustainable, and you go "fcking nazis, fcking EU"...
I think that is the superficial view of someone that know very little of what is talking about.
study, learn and then you'll never say again that. Expecially the funny part about Germany (and the tale of the lazy italian vs the honest german.. that really makes me goes out crazy!!!)
I think that is the superficial view of someone that know very little of what is talking about.
study, learn and then you'll never say again that. Expecially the funny part about Germany (and the tale of the lazy italian vs the honest german.. that really makes me goes out crazy!!!)