Subject: »NEWS AROUND THE WORLD

But the question is, what kind of person will take over. This could be a complete lunatic, maybe even worse than Putin (unlikely, but it could happen).

It's not unlikely, it's probable.

If someone would kill Putin, then the public opinion would demand blood. They would choose a guy who can fulfill their demand.

To all the Dutchies: please call some mental hospital and pass them Charles' address. Obviously, he has gone totally mad. He wants the EU to send troops to Ukraine. The EU has no power to do that (he probably meant NATO). But more importantly, what the hell? Sending an army to Ukraine is no solution.

I guess Charles is sick of the relative peace in Eastern Europe. It has lasted for 15 years now, apparently that's enough for him.

Well, I haven't thought about it that way, but now that I do I think you are right.

So in other words, EU money send to Ukraine to help the Ukrainians goes almost directly to Russia's Gazprom .... When does the EU realize they should not send money but an army to solve this still increasing problem! :/

Yes! Let's send an army, it will solve all the problems! Like it did in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya etc pp.!

Are you kidding me..

When would it be right for Ukraine to defend itself ?

...and or how would you go about it ? when russian military is x10 stronger and is just waiting for Ukrainians to snap... just like Putin did in Georgia.

Russia is ready to invade, no one is denying that. And sanctions are not going to make russian troops withdraw. Agresive pro russian protesters, are supported by russian military on daily basis.

In my view, NATO should be ready in alaska, in scandynavia, and in turkey. Just like Russian forces are ready all around ukrainian borders. It should be made more simple for Putin, if russia invades ukraine from 3 sides, they should expect the same from NATO, on their own territory. If they adopt the bully stance, they shloud expect someone (only NATO or US can do that) to stand in their way.

I am definatly not advocating war, but time is working against Ukraine and normal people living there and in favor of russia and their military strength, or should we just wait, for Ukrainie to bleed itself out untill winter, so that Putin can cut of the gas in november? 70% increase in price now is DEFINATLY not de-escalating Ukrainian conflict, surrounding Ukrainie with tens of tousands of russian military is also DEFINATLY not de-escalating Ukrainian (used to be internal) conflict.

An let's not forget there is another even more important thing, Putin is playing his own nation.. with impreial propaganda crap, to get more centralized power, and more support for militarising in few years to come.. should we give the same oportunity to Putin, that Hitler got in 1938?? come on?

NATO should be ready, for the worst, and hope for the best. Unfortunately.
Its a clear cut, bullying case. "The toy" of Crimean military bases for the russian fleet has already been taken, next, its the "toy of" oil and gas in eastern ukraine... is up for grabs.


(edited)

So you are bashing the EU while Putin does the same... where is your logic ? Why are you not bashing bot sides ?

I am trying make this forum equal and becaus there are most people pro west orientated and ignoring reality I have decided support just east side here.

But I can stand also on west side in same case, not war area of course, but not here... here I need make this more equal :-)

why do you think they keep they army on east border of Ukraine?

Cos there is big chance that problems will occur again and Russia want to be sure that new Ukraine government (especially that fascist right sector) will not hurt russian people, their laws. If Ukraine west support part of government want force whole ukraine get to nato (without referendum or so) and if they will not respect the fact, that on the east Ukraine live and will live also russian who are against it (btw in a lot of regions as a majority) there will be russian army as a warning.

If this will not help stop the problems and will escalate situation, that army can help fast. Is this dost reasonable reason to have there that army ?

So in other words, EU money send to Ukraine to help the Ukrainians goes almost directly to Russia's Gazprom .... When does the EU realize they should not send money but an army to solve this still increasing problem! :/


Charles Hill... finally I can agree with you. You get the point !
We all will pay it and Russia will win and earn on us. Eu is really stupid sometimes!

Money to Ukraine will not help and army not too.
And EU sanctions are just for laughing :-D

The only one what can have maybe logic can be stand russia side and have no problems :-).
Or what should EU did levitate :-) ?

I am definatly not advocating war, but time is working against Ukraine and normal people living there


I want to read "Ukrainian normal people living there" asking to host a war over there. I want to read Crimean or any other Ukrainian saying that it's OK for Russian and NATO armies to clash in their cities, in their fields, in their skies. I want to read them say they are willing to take the bomb in their heads to frustrate Russian plans. Or NATO plans for all that matter. That, all in all, they believe that's what's best for them.


I will not, however, just accept warmongering from the sofa. I think "Ukraine, normal people leaving there" already took a lot more than they deserve from NATO and Russia playing chess in their homes.
I would take you seriously if you offered to host the war in Poland. If you really believe it's so important that you would have both armies chasing each other through your house, then maybe I will consider the "we have no choice" claim. But it's always too easy to say that others' suffering is justified under this or that pretext.
No, definitely no: I want the ones that are supposedly going to be saved to say that they do, in fact, want to be saved in B-2 style. Outsiders with a Sid Meier's Civilization overdose don't count.

...for starters, read with understanding, I did not advocate for a second that NATO should go into Ukraine. NATO should not go into Ukraine. They should only be prepared (for the worst scenario) ready to attack russia itself in reconciliation, if (or more probably when...) russia or Putin decides to invade east-Ukraine. Just like russian troops are surrounding Ukraine borders, the same should be done to the aggressor = russia (by and only within NATO country borders) - yes more and american military in Poland, please.. not a measly squadron of f-16 (still its something), but more importantly more military should be stationed in NATO countries adjacent to russia, from a strategic point of view: scandinavian north-west Estonia, north-Norway. Im the south (black-sea) Bulgaria and Turkey... Georgia maybe, alaska is a bit pointless... but also. Russia as the Bully should definitely feel a stronger military presence around their own territory, as they cumulate their army near Ukraine, to brake bits of it apart. Simple diplomacy/risk mechanics. If there is a threat from a strong army to a weak one, the balance needs to be restored. And even more importantly while there is a major crisis in Ukraine, russia is trying to steal of their most potent territory, in oil and gas.. without which Ukraine stands no chance of surviving, which is exactly why Putin is doing what he is doing.

make no mistake, russia is ready for a invasion. NATO is nowhere near ready for a reaction, if one is needed.



Russia is only waiting for Ukraine to bleed and weaken, the closer it gets to september/november (winter) the happier Putin will be in Ukraine is still and probably more destabilsed, where literally Ukraine will be "in the cold" or naked, without russian gas supply...
A: russia, B for Belarus.. E for European Union, maybe E or F...


(edited)

jasiom22, we are talking nuclear powers here. A few more tanks here and there won't make Russia any more threatend that it is. There is no possibility of taking conventional war to Russian soil, just like there is no possibility of taking conventional war into US soil. If any direct, conventional conflict is to take place, it will be in a third party's territory, the weaker, the more likely.

Does anybody here care about the people's right?
What a surprise that someone in Ukraine doesn't want to be enslaved by IMF and EU... How stupid they must be....

And other people in this thread are doing the opposite (bashing Putin while EU does the same).
You seem to agree that Putin=EU in that dimension, but many in this thread disagree with you (for example, rumpil says it's all Soros/EU, while jasiom22 says it's all Putin, hence none of them sees both as doing the same).

+1

As I already said, Pandora's box is open. USA just can't denie evidence much longer.
What we know for sure by now, is that USA already paid over 5bn$ to destabilize Kiev.

Here we can say how the brain of an our dutchie friend in this forum work...

Cos there is big chance that problems will occur again and Russia want to be sure that new Ukraine government (especially that fascist right sector) will not hurt russian people
Did it took place relier? Especially in Crimea! How many russian was hurt?

And Right Sector is not a part of government!

If Ukraine west support part of government want force whole ukraine get to nato (without referendum or so) and if they will not respect the fact, that on the east Ukraine live and will live also russian who are against it
If they are russian they may go to Russia! If they are just russian speaking ukrainians it's different! And Ukraine need help of NATO to stop Russian invasion in Ukraine. One of the way is to join NATO. And wiki Who have stopped Ukraine from join NATO?

there will be russian army as a warning
Warning from what? Ukrainian attack on Russia? Protect russian speaking Ukrainian? If a speak french does it make me French or may english make me English man? Or they just prepare to a new occupation of Ukraine?

If this will not help stop the problems and will escalate situation, that army can help fast.
This army already helped in Crimea! Earlier in Georgia! It's a wary helpful army!
But who they will help?

Is this dost reasonable reason to have there that army ?
Actually the only reason I see it's a new occupation of East Ukraine! No?

And two question:
What happened 1 September 1939?
Status of Poland on 16 September 1939?