Subject: »NEWS AROUND THE WORLD

I can't realize if you users of this forum don't get my point becouse my english is so bad or if you're just trolling me again and again...
How can I further say that I'm NON pro-Putin or pro-Obama???
I posted a couple of video up-there. Why you don't want to try to understand what I'm trying to say?
I'll post one again which fix exactly the point, please see it, if you don't want just to troll me like our dutchie friend...
VILE HYPOCRISY EXPOSED by reporter doing his job

West supporting revolution and coup in Kiev? Democracy.
Russia moving army and organizing a referendum in Crimea? Baaaaad russians.... BAAAAAD!!!
West supplying military aid and looking forward to put NATO army in Ukraine? It's to help the will of the people of Ukraine to be free.
Russia moving some soldier near the ukrainian border? NOOOOOOOO How they dare??? Bad russians! Bad and evil russians!!!
West does't give a crap about the agreement with Gorbachev to not expand eastward NATO in turn of the east Germany? Ok with that...
Russia raising the gas price in Ukraine to the market price? You bastards!!!
NATO bombing Serbia? Of course! Milosevich was a mass murder!!! Let's kill some serbian and allow albanian to do the same!
Russia defending their citizens in Ossetia and Crimea? Fucking invaders!!!

I can go forward forever with this...

ALL IS WRONG!!! The only things that really matter is the will of the people!

I can't realize if you users of this forum don't get my point becouse my english is so bad or if you're just trolling me again and again...

You forgot option 3: you talk nonsense! Your examples show clearly where your thinking goes wrong, but you don't want to see it. Instead of even considering this option 3, you start asking if it is a language or trolling problem. NO, it is option 3!

(edited)

I can't realize if you users of this forum don't get my point becouse my english is so bad or if you're just trolling me again and again..
Or may becouse it's ridiculous?!

West supporting revolution and coup in Kiev? Democracy.
Maybe it was! No? 2 million on Maidan is it "voice" of people or it's just drunk paid by west idiots? Or maybe ukrainian people had enough of this corrupted government and violence against peaceful protesters in night of 30 November was last drop that pushed to "coup"? You know that about hundred protester still not found?

Russia moving army and organizing a referendum in Crimea? Baaaaad russians.... BAAAAAD!!!
Crimea, population about 2,5 million. "Referendum" organized in 10 days! All lists of citizen verified, commissions organized, places prepared, bulletins printed. And referendum take place under surveillance "non" Russian army.
Protection of Russian! protect 97% from 3%. Realy? And you could use russian passport for referendum! Great!
30% of population of Crimea is tatars that will newer join Russia once again! They know their history.

West supplying military aid and looking forward to put NATO army in Ukraine? It's to help the will of the people of Ukraine to be free.
Yes! Free from Russia! Ukrainian army is weaker than russian and can't stop occupation. NATO's forces will give mostly psychological effect on Moscow and may help to avoid further military conflict.

Russia moving some soldier near the ukrainian border? NOOOOOOOO How they dare??? Bad russians! Bad and evil russians!!!
No! They are very friendly! They just want to save russian speaking ukrainian from other ukrainian! From [url+http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_protests_in_Ukraine#cite_note-209]wiki[/url]
Only 5% of respondents in Eastern Ukraine feel Russian-speakers are 'definitely' under pressure or threat.
And don't you mind that after military ocupation of Crimea by Russian army it's logic that moving some soldier near the ukrainian border. Bad russians!

West does't give a crap about the agreement with Gorbachev to not expand eastward NATO in turn of the east Germany? Ok with that...
hard to find

Russia raising the gas price in Ukraine to the market price? You bastards!!!
Actualy it's based on Kharkov agreement, discount was given in exchange for 30 years loan of NAVY base in Crimea. Russia occupied Crimea and anulate the agreement. Bastards?
In the net you can find the price for Russian gas for different countries and you'll see that despite that Ukraine is closest (transit distance)price isn't cheapest. Just spend some time ;)

NATO bombing Serbia? Of course! Milosevich was a mass murder!!! Let's kill some serbian and allow albanian to do the same!
Is it in Ukraine? Or in Russia?

Russia defending their citizens in Ossetia and Crimea? Fucking invaders!!!
Citizenship. So russian citizen, with russian passports, need protection in Odessa and Crimea? Or they may just leave territory of other country and return to Russia?
But enter an army in Crimea or Odessa where live Ukrainian citizen under slogan of protection of russian it call's occupation! And what danger was for "protected" that an military occupation was necessary?

I can go forward forever with this...
I'm sure you do! But more I read, more I came to idea... That you have no idea about what are you writing. You just don't like EU, USA and NATO and try to convince everyone that they are worse than Putin...

ALL IS WRONG!!! The only things that really matter is the will of the people!
Yes! And ukraininan want's to live in Ukraine and not divide it! But it's not what Putin want's! Even before he pushed Ukraine to join Eurasian Economic Community customs union, that Putin direct, and not sign association with EU.
With new government he can't do so and he try to use force and media to occupate Ukrainian territory in "referendum" way.
I'm lazy to serch more for You

Seriously Charles, take a break from this thread. Everything you talk about is how sick and dumb posts of other users are, that they spread only propaganda etc pp. I haven't seen a single argument from you. diamanti on the other hand has some valid points.

...we are talking nuclear powers here.

...yes, that is true. Very unfortunate, lets hope Putin is not that insane.

A few more tanks here and there won't make Russia any more threatend that it is. There is no possibility of taking conventional war to Russian soil...

...but here I disagree completly. Tanks and planes make all the difference :-), I wouldn't put NATO forces in Ukraine itself, it would not be wise, as russian forces are already there (stones throw away), ready in place, for an invasion.
We don't want a war. But we should be prepared for it, when it seems inevitable... the way russia is going so far... More NATO troops in Poland, Estonia, Turkey is almost a must.

Few tanks (300/400 tanks) and few planes (140 aircraft), and tens of thousands of troops do make a major difference. Russia is ready to invade Ukraine with planes and tanks, they not intending nuclear assualt (because they want the territory with gas, oil and pipelines.) they want to steal it of sovereign neighbouring country to make their long way to "prosperity" near to impossible. NATO should be ready to hit straight back at russia (on russian territory) with similar firepower, or stronger, (only if, or when) russia attack Ukraine.
I am saying NATO should be ready, and they should NOT attack. Just like russia is ready, and might invade... they should get their own medicine.

Why for example Poland or Lithuania shouldn't occupy sorry "free" Kaliningrad Obalst now? for example? and make a referendum, to make it a part of Lithuania? Lithuania who historically lost most from the russian aggressors.

lets look at world war II. Allies were supposed to defend Poland, when Hitler attacked on 1st september. England, France declared war! on Nazi germany and so on... what did they do? almost nothing. And 3 weeks later Poland was ripped apart from both sides, and stood no chance. Just like Ukraine today, has no chance agaist Russia, and especially with Belarus above, spearing their love for russia recently. Allies only waited for Hitler to attack benelux and france, do we want history to reapeat itself? or should NATO be ready to react? straight away? that's what they are for, lets not forget. Should we wait for another year? for Putin to attack Poland or Estonia? to realize the threat?

Allies Engage Germany in Phony War (1939)
Allies Engage Germany in Phony War (1939): The UK and France had pledged their support for Poland if invaded. When Poland was invaded, the British and French engaged in only minor skirmishes with Germany along the French-German border. This negligible level of intervention did nothing to aid the Poles in their struggle to defend themselves, which came to a quick end.

People... yes its all about the people living there... so far, we know that Yanukovich was a corrupt pro-russian puppet who took ukraine to almost bancrupcy, and from march, day by day we know that Ukrainia's life is getting worse by the hour, day by day... while russian gives a 70% rise in gas prices for russia, while the threat of russian invasion becomes more and more imminent... people yes... help them? or leave them? that is the question? hmm... and if help them, how? what's the biggest threat.. at the moment = russian troops in the east are the biggest threat to "normal" life in Ukraine, pro-russian protesters are also a threat to UKRAINIAN people in UKRAINE.

Pace of world war 2. week per country. 17th sept.'30 - Poland invaded by ussr/russia.
Now it would probably be faster.

(edited)

I have answered your question, and I think there was nothing wrong with the answer I gave.

And I have even answered some people, before page 550, so that's how much crap has been posted after that. And no, repeating points don't make it better arguments over time, it becomes even more crazy behaviour, apart from the weird thinking.


EDIT: and the problem is not me, the problem is this topic and it has been a problem for as long as I can remember, also if I don't post a single sentence.

(edited)

Maybe it was! No? 2 million on Maidan is it "voice" of people or it's just drunk paid by west idiots? Or maybe ukrainian people had enough of this corrupted government and violence against peaceful protesters in night of 30 November was last drop that pushed to "coup"? You know that about hundred protester still not found?

I think that' s really naive.
Do you really believe that arab spring (in Egypt for example) was a popular movement born freely by egyptians??
I think that the number of protester is the last thing to watch for, looking for a deus ex machina.

surely ukrainian people had a lot to protest against their gov. As the most of people of the whole world...
But this doesn't explain why they did. How they were organized, how they coalizated, how they had found faith and numbers.

If you fail to recognize, for example, that social media use is used from at least 5 years in this situation a lot of times,
That easily a protester organization can find almost everyone is cathegorized as "sensible" in tw, fb, and get a way to talk them, etc etc--

If you fail to see that some of the minister of Ukraine worked against its gov to boicot it. that they were in constant contact with US ambassador, that they prepared and make scandals explode..

then I think you don't want to see (or your media doesn't allow it).

PS: Putin does the same, that's not a pro-Putin post. I only think you should understand you were used as pawns in a chess match. As the ukrainian speaking russian were used by putin.

Watch out. You're gonna end up on his ignore list. I'm on that list. He blocked me, so he can never see what I wrote on the forums. Whilst that may seem sad, there is a fun part. When in discussion with him and others, he replies on other people's comments on my reply, in which he has to make assumptions about what I said. When those assumptions are incorrect (which is like every single time), he just looks like a fool. It's funnier than it sounds ;-)

Also, I think that deep down, it is annoying seeing comments you cannot read. Even if you cannot stand the person who made them. I sometimes reply just to mess with him ;-)

And talking about Ukrainian people:
70% rise in gas prices..
ban's of ukrainian exports to russia,
whole country near bankruptcy (the reason why maidan happend), and getting worse by the day...
possibility of russian invasion...
and the main industrial region in chaos, possibly soon to be stolen off, by russian "separatist" military.

Ukrainian Industry:



(edited)

Ah ok, I get it now....
It's all about the money!!! :)
So I've been a fool thinking this was about the will of the people... :)

I think that' s really naive.
Do you really believe that arab spring (in Egypt for example) was a popular movement born freely by egyptians??
I'm not sure that you can think... Arab spring? I wasn't there and you? Ukraine? What can I say...

surely ukrainian people had a lot to protest against their gov. As the most of people of the whole world...
But this doesn't explain why they did. How they were organized, how they coalizated, how they had found faith and numbers.
Even if I'll explane You, You'll never understand it. You wan't to see a "hand of USA" in it, You'll not accept that people just had enough.

If you fail to recognize, for example, that social media use is used from at least 5 years in this situation a lot of times,
That easily a protester organization can find almost everyone is cathegorized as "sensible" in tw, fb, and get a way to talk them, etc etc--
Even more! Google watch You! They know what ads propose to You!
I get Your point, but see paragraf 1.

If you fail to see that some of the minister of Ukraine worked against its gov to boicot it. that they were in constant contact with US ambassador, that they prepared and make scandals explode..
Same... If You fail to see that somme ministers, prime minister and president was in contact with Putin and tried to sell Ukraine to Russia!?
Actualy, if You don't know Maidan selforganised without them! Maybee You need to revatch the news for that period to refresh Your memory? I understand that You don't like that thay contact with US, but with who do You prefer they contact? Nazi Russia?
And boicot.. Do know what they boicot for or ageinst what? Did You know that Parti of Region, when they was in oposition, blocet the work of parlament for 6 month? Did You know that in 2 years son of Yanukovich become milliarder? Did you know that military base in Crimea was gived to Russia for nothing, and reduction for gas was only in december 2013? Do You remember that Russia ensist that discution about integration of Ukraine in EU held in 3 side dialig: Ukraine, EU and Russia? Did You know that in 2004 Parti of Region in Donets already tried to join Donetsk to Russia with help of 150 deputy and Luzhkov, ex-major of Moscow now? Continue? Do You remember that it was ukrainian Berkut that ataked protestors on Maidan in night of 30 November? Did You know that before withdrav sign of EU agreement Yanukovich was in Moscow? Do You remember Russian boicot of Ukrainian goods to force us join Custom Union and not EU? Did You know that this metod was used many times by Russia to recive what they want from Ukraine? Did You know that on Russian TV they compared EU 2013 to Hitlers regime in 1933? In 2004 Russian TV showed empty Maidan, without protestors, tent city, know that?
You can organize a protest via social network, but you can't make people go under bulets with that!
That the difference of Maidan and what hapens actualy in East. And that is realy organized by Russia!

That is sad that same actions have different meaning depends on side of supporters.
Look... west EU supported maidan and demonstrators. They want get Ukraine into EU and Nato.

and look now, west EU is against "Ukrainian pro-russia terrorists" demonstrating in the east cities of Ukraine, they want get out Ukraine from influence of EU and NATO.

Same protests, same point just sides are different. One pro EU are good, second one against EU is evil. Really ridiculous.

@Levitate:
You're gonna end up on his ignore list. I'm on that list. He blocked me........ I sometimes reply just to mess with him ;-)

Charles Hill told me, that he was wrong and after I explained him Ukraine conflict he said he agree with me and say sorry that he was wrong. Now he support Russia too and the shame what he did here is the reason why he will not react on me now.


(I had to test his ignore list :-DDD, I am there too I suppose)

So I've been a fool

You really want an answer??

thinking this was about the will of the people... :)

You mean the will of Russia? So no, you still don't get it.

Even if I'll explane You, You'll never understand it. You wan't to see a "hand of USA" in it, You'll not accept that people just had enough.


I've read the leaks between Ukrainian leaders and US amabassador..

If You fail to see that somme ministers, prime minister and president was in contact with Putin and tried to sell Ukraine to Russia!?

I don't fail in recognizing it.
You were a russian colony,
another colonizator, USA/EU, is trying to steal you (Ukraine) from Russian influence to get it into their influence.


You can organize a protest via social network, but you can't make people go under bulets with that!

I think this is really naive. I want you to look very carefully from those that ask you to fight for freedom, while they are selling you to a new master.
Remember that everybody wants Ukraine for using it. No one cares about you and your rights and freedoms.