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Subject: »NEWS AROUND THE WORLD
It's quiete simple prob: Rebels want to shoot down a military airplane and shoot this one by accident (not expecting a passenger flight to fly over as it's original course was different)
Nothing more complicated happened here..
Nothing more complicated happened here..
One more time, rebels do not have capability to shot down a plane at 10 km height. The only people around with functioning SAM missile systems is Russian and Ukrainian Army.
New report with translation from comes from Spanish air traffic controller in Kiev @spainbuca who was watching the whole thing evolving on his screen and tweeting about it live on the 17th (I speak no spanish so I was waiting until somebody translates it before posting it here). He confirms the plane was accompanied by 2 fighter jets just 2 minutes before shotdown.
Apparently Ukraine did it, the person responsible might be Ukrainian Minister of Interior.
The translations of the tweets are here:
http://www.for-the-fans.com
Possible reason? To blame current president Poroshenko and force him to resign.
The culprit? Julia Timoshenko, his presidential opponent and hot candidate for presidential replacement.
Remember to follow the trail of money & power with events like this one.
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New report with translation from comes from Spanish air traffic controller in Kiev @spainbuca who was watching the whole thing evolving on his screen and tweeting about it live on the 17th (I speak no spanish so I was waiting until somebody translates it before posting it here). He confirms the plane was accompanied by 2 fighter jets just 2 minutes before shotdown.
Apparently Ukraine did it, the person responsible might be Ukrainian Minister of Interior.
The translations of the tweets are here:
http://www.for-the-fans.com
Possible reason? To blame current president Poroshenko and force him to resign.
The culprit? Julia Timoshenko, his presidential opponent and hot candidate for presidential replacement.
Remember to follow the trail of money & power with events like this one.
(edited)
One more time, rebels do not have capability to shot down a plane at 10 km height. The only people around with functioning SAM missile systems is Russian and Ukrainian Army.
We (you) don't know that for sure. Some time ago the separatists claimed themselves that they brought such a "BUK-system" under their control. It's not clear however if they could handle it or it is working after all.
New report with translation from comes from Spanish air traffic controller in Kiev @spainbuca who was watching the whole thing evolving on his screen and tweeting about it live on the 17th (I speak no spanish so I was waiting until somebody translates it before posting it here). He confirms the plane was accompanied by 2 fighter jets just 2 minutes before shotdown.
Is it usual that an air traffic controller, even in a foreign country, does not speak English apparently? This seems kinda strange to me. Also, is it plausbile that a civil passenger flight gets escorted by military jets while the pilots don't care about it? As far as I know there was no report or asking about such a thing. I think an escort would cause the flight captaion to ask what the heck was going on.
According to the Wayback Machine, a seperatist leader claimed on a Russian social media platform having shot down an Ukrainian Antonov 26 just after the Malayan plane crashed. Later this post was removed. WM could be manipulated but it would be hard to do so.
Edit gives the source: http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2014/0717/Web-evidence-points-to-pro-Russia-rebels-in-downing-of-MH17-video
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We (you) don't know that for sure. Some time ago the separatists claimed themselves that they brought such a "BUK-system" under their control. It's not clear however if they could handle it or it is working after all.
New report with translation from comes from Spanish air traffic controller in Kiev @spainbuca who was watching the whole thing evolving on his screen and tweeting about it live on the 17th (I speak no spanish so I was waiting until somebody translates it before posting it here). He confirms the plane was accompanied by 2 fighter jets just 2 minutes before shotdown.
Is it usual that an air traffic controller, even in a foreign country, does not speak English apparently? This seems kinda strange to me. Also, is it plausbile that a civil passenger flight gets escorted by military jets while the pilots don't care about it? As far as I know there was no report or asking about such a thing. I think an escort would cause the flight captaion to ask what the heck was going on.
According to the Wayback Machine, a seperatist leader claimed on a Russian social media platform having shot down an Ukrainian Antonov 26 just after the Malayan plane crashed. Later this post was removed. WM could be manipulated but it would be hard to do so.
Edit gives the source: http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2014/0717/Web-evidence-points-to-pro-Russia-rebels-in-downing-of-MH17-video
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Well, the language of tweets depends on who they are addressed to. I live & work abroad myself but I tweet in Slovak, because my followers are Slovak. I believe the guy speaks English, of course.
BUK system rocket launcher is useless without accompaning vehicles & data from radar feed.
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BUK system rocket launcher is useless without accompaning vehicles & data from radar feed.
(edited)
It's quiete simple prob: Rebels want to shoot down a military airplane and shoot this one by accident (not expecting a passenger flight to fly over as it's original course was different)
Nothing more complicated happened here..
Yep
Although you can hardly call it 'by accident' if someone group of terrorists starts shooting at 10km high unidentified airplanes with the possibility to hit a passanger plane that is, according the Malaysia Airlines spokesman, allowed to fligh that route.
I think if idiots starts shooting with surface-to-air missiles at unidentified airplanes it is most likely they will shoot down a passanger plane.
Nothing more complicated happened here..
Yep
Although you can hardly call it 'by accident' if someone group of terrorists starts shooting at 10km high unidentified airplanes with the possibility to hit a passanger plane that is, according the Malaysia Airlines spokesman, allowed to fligh that route.
I think if idiots starts shooting with surface-to-air missiles at unidentified airplanes it is most likely they will shoot down a passanger plane.
When all is so clear even a ... person like you can't deny anymore you have been supporting terrorists who killed 300 innocent people, I wonder what you will post in this topic ..............
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I am not. If there's proof rebels fired a SAM missile rocket to the plane I'll be the first one to condemn them. So far all small pieces put together point to Minister of Interior Affairs of Ukraine.
Let's see what the trajectory of the missile shows as well as black box communication.
Let's see what the trajectory of the missile shows as well as black box communication.
So far all small pieces put together point to Minister of Interior Affairs of Ukraine.
When you ignore all pieces that point in any other direction, this is true of course :)
When you ignore all pieces that point in any other direction, this is true of course :)
Well, what can I think about Ukrainian proof?
The video confirming rebel involvement was apparently created one day before the plane crashed = fabricated.
Rebels don't have working SAM missile system (as of now it was not confirmed), only MANPADs.
Ukraine has multiple SAM batteries in the area.
Ukraine has internal fight between Poroshenko & Timoshenko people.
There are no clear competencies over military - some of them are under Defence, some operate under Internal Affairs.
Ukraine military already shot down civilian airplane in 2001 so there is a possibility of repeating.
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The video confirming rebel involvement was apparently created one day before the plane crashed = fabricated.
Rebels don't have working SAM missile system (as of now it was not confirmed), only MANPADs.
Ukraine has multiple SAM batteries in the area.
Ukraine has internal fight between Poroshenko & Timoshenko people.
There are no clear competencies over military - some of them are under Defence, some operate under Internal Affairs.
Ukraine military already shot down civilian airplane in 2001 so there is a possibility of repeating.
(edited)
Rebels don't have working SAM missile system (as of now it was not confirmed), only MANPADs.
You are sure?... http://en.itar-tass.com/world/738262
Ukraine has multiple SAM batteries in the area.
Ukraine has internal fight between Poroshenko & Timoshenko people.
There are no clear competencies over military - some of them are under Defence, some operate under Internal Affairs.
Ukraine military already shot down civilian airplane in 2001 so there is a possibility of repeating.
If Ukraine didn't have such missiles, we wouldn't even had to discuss.. the rest are at best motives, but not evidence.
And what about this: http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2014/0717/Web-evidence-points-to-pro-Russia-rebels-in-downing-of-MH17-video
even Russian source: http://lifenews.ru/news/136801 (17.07.2014 18:34)
(it's in Russian but google translator will tell you enough)
Instead you can of course believe the Spanish guy.. but then again I wonder why nobody else has seen those two jets and the MH17 itself didn't report anything.
All in all, I don't see a lot of evidence towards Ukrainian government.. rather the opposite. Let's see how things develop.
You are sure?... http://en.itar-tass.com/world/738262
Ukraine has multiple SAM batteries in the area.
Ukraine has internal fight between Poroshenko & Timoshenko people.
There are no clear competencies over military - some of them are under Defence, some operate under Internal Affairs.
Ukraine military already shot down civilian airplane in 2001 so there is a possibility of repeating.
If Ukraine didn't have such missiles, we wouldn't even had to discuss.. the rest are at best motives, but not evidence.
And what about this: http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2014/0717/Web-evidence-points-to-pro-Russia-rebels-in-downing-of-MH17-video
even Russian source: http://lifenews.ru/news/136801 (17.07.2014 18:34)
(it's in Russian but google translator will tell you enough)
Instead you can of course believe the Spanish guy.. but then again I wonder why nobody else has seen those two jets and the MH17 itself didn't report anything.
All in all, I don't see a lot of evidence towards Ukrainian government.. rather the opposite. Let's see how things develop.
The fabricated video indeed is a smoking gun - but showing that some forces around Ministry of Internal Affairs were planning this event in advance.
Video was published by security service = Interior Affairs
Who fabricated it?
Video was published by security service = Interior Affairs
Who fabricated it?
So far all small pieces put together point to Minister of Interior Affairs of Ukraine.
Wow :S You must be trolling, because you really can't be serious about this. If not, you have a serious mind problem as you are living in a completely different world as everyone else.
Wow :S You must be trolling, because you really can't be serious about this. If not, you have a serious mind problem as you are living in a completely different world as everyone else.
Sorry if I avoid to read some 100 posts...
Just want to say in front of events like this (or the Odessa massacre) the first thing to do is to stop everyone and reflect on what war brings on.
As every war does, the highest price is always paid by the innocent people :(
Right now is useles to speculate about who did it, becouse there'll certainly be many invenstigation and now the news moves in many direction.
There are now at least 2 main conjectures, but both could be wrong.
There have been too many events of "human error" killing innocents that just one thing should be clear now: the war never brings something good to the humanity...
Just want to say in front of events like this (or the Odessa massacre) the first thing to do is to stop everyone and reflect on what war brings on.
As every war does, the highest price is always paid by the innocent people :(
Right now is useles to speculate about who did it, becouse there'll certainly be many invenstigation and now the news moves in many direction.
There are now at least 2 main conjectures, but both could be wrong.
There have been too many events of "human error" killing innocents that just one thing should be clear now: the war never brings something good to the humanity...
The national governor of the Donetsk region, Pavel Gubarev, admitted that while the separatists indeed are in possession of one BUK missile unit, it is not operational, and even if it was, it would be unable to reach a height of over 30,000 feet without central radar guidance which the Donetsk region does not have, once again suggesting that a Surface to Air Missile, if indeed one was used, came from the Ukraine side. Surely it will be very easy for international monitors to validate this report.