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talking about history...
do not mix the cossack people(way larger teritory) and it's history with the so-called ukraine people/state.
i understand well that poland expects something in that issue from their friends, but poland is poland and russia is russia: can't have both the same thing at the same time :)))
nice to be friends with uncle sam as long as they pay you to be friends, but when they ask you to pay...
i still hope that they will supply your gas for this winter. let's hope that the winter will be warmer than usual :)
do not mix the cossack people(way larger teritory) and it's history with the so-called ukraine people/state.
i understand well that poland expects something in that issue from their friends, but poland is poland and russia is russia: can't have both the same thing at the same time :)))
nice to be friends with uncle sam as long as they pay you to be friends, but when they ask you to pay...
i still hope that they will supply your gas for this winter. let's hope that the winter will be warmer than usual :)
Wow ... borders and regions (territory) and history, difficult subjects. Often people in border regions of a country share more similarities with the neigborn countries as they do with fellow countryman in the centre or on the other side of the country .... But they are countryman as borders are real, eventhough something as culture for example doesn't know borders. So what should not be mixed??
And there is the anti-US talking again .... what a surprise :/
(edited)
And there is the anti-US talking again .... what a surprise :/
(edited)
doru, what are you on? ...about?
I gave the Poland map overlap... to show to you that for centuries Ukrainian territory had almost nothing do with Russia, "poland is poland and russia is russia: can't have both the same thing at the same time :)))" - that is exactly my point... you can, we did and you do... have both, as both culture and language evolve in time... and nation states are (relatively modern invention anyway) based on the people's will, most importantly law, and their understanding of thier own history, along with language and culture (national identity) - and often unfortunately also the strengths of their armies.
Blue=Russian language in Belarus *census 2009
I can understand were you are coming from... with your accusations, but it is obvious that your knowledge of Ukrainian and Russian history is even poorer than mine... and you don't seem to realize that the same can be said for any nation state. For example Belarus is a good example of your accusations.. Belarus actually is a almost made up state.. :-) with more russians (culture and history) than true belarussians living in their land who become marginalised in their own country by the lust after a ex-soviet regime, the efforts to preserve their true belarussian culture is almost failing... and the byelarussian language is spoken less and less, in the favor of russian... the mainland of Belarus and the political power over it, was and is taken over by a ex-kgb dictator... who makes up, and creates the Belarussian history from scratch... strongly out of soviet history (belarussian ccp), some polish and mainly lithuanian history, adapted as their own... (the change of the flag in 1995 made it clear) Belarus and Belarussians for centuries were united with Poland and Lithuania... and fought wars against moscow's expantions, now it is alomst the complete opposite with Belarus as a puppet state for Moscow's wishes, that is exactly what Ukraine is now fighting against (russian expantion, like this year with crimea). Belarus still has a government in exile... Poland's officially ended in 1990 and Ukrainian in 1992. After the fall of communism, in Belarus and Russia in a sense, it never actually did fall. Russia just change their flag but continued their near autocracy, as for Belarus it still is a literally autocratic socialist rep. like it was under Stalin. We just have a new face, with the same red star on his hat. In a sense he is the one we should really worry about, as he could be the scapegoat for starting the war, Putin's war and his expantion plans, first we had Georgia, Crimea, now Ukraine... the tentions are growing.. and going north.. we have some ex-soviet malitias starting conflicts and Putins sayes the day with some white trucks... in a case of Belarus this could go back to the same global ideological conflict... "socialist republics" vs "capitalist democracies". Belarus-China Military Cooperation, 24 March 2014 "for the people!" :-] just like stalin, mao and lenin before them...
In a sense historically almost all Polish troubles with Moscow are mainly formed by the Poland unification with (ruthenian/old belarussian speaking) Lithuania (which included Belarus, and parts of Ukraine and more) originally they were the societies defending themselves from the agression from the east... Poland, when both states unified under the Polish crown... the mess with russian expantion shited westwards... subsequently with Poland losing a great deal of territory to russia, i 1945 with the Hitler-Stalin agreed partition of Poland, the curzon line as the east Polish boarder even today. (which in today's context makes Poland, and mainly Warsaw.. very vulnerable to any "crimea like" - russian agression, with belarus as russia's ally.
But going back to the comparison of Belarus and Ukraine state aspirations this century...
In Ukraine it is marginally similar in recent history, but in a matter of fact very different when you look back further in time... and the number of Ukrainian's, as there always was more distinct history and political movements there, also states... one might say that there is even more history there that in muscovite russia itself, with the Kievian rus as main example... the was no moscow, when there was already a strong settlement in Kiev.
blue=over80% ukrainian language *census 2001
anyhow... there is much much more you need to read up on Ukrainian history, before you want to make bold statements like that one.. and even more so, if you would want your "argument" to make any sense at all... ciao!
good start is languages...
(edited)
I gave the Poland map overlap... to show to you that for centuries Ukrainian territory had almost nothing do with Russia, "poland is poland and russia is russia: can't have both the same thing at the same time :)))" - that is exactly my point... you can, we did and you do... have both, as both culture and language evolve in time... and nation states are (relatively modern invention anyway) based on the people's will, most importantly law, and their understanding of thier own history, along with language and culture (national identity) - and often unfortunately also the strengths of their armies.
Blue=Russian language in Belarus *census 2009
I can understand were you are coming from... with your accusations, but it is obvious that your knowledge of Ukrainian and Russian history is even poorer than mine... and you don't seem to realize that the same can be said for any nation state. For example Belarus is a good example of your accusations.. Belarus actually is a almost made up state.. :-) with more russians (culture and history) than true belarussians living in their land who become marginalised in their own country by the lust after a ex-soviet regime, the efforts to preserve their true belarussian culture is almost failing... and the byelarussian language is spoken less and less, in the favor of russian... the mainland of Belarus and the political power over it, was and is taken over by a ex-kgb dictator... who makes up, and creates the Belarussian history from scratch... strongly out of soviet history (belarussian ccp), some polish and mainly lithuanian history, adapted as their own... (the change of the flag in 1995 made it clear) Belarus and Belarussians for centuries were united with Poland and Lithuania... and fought wars against moscow's expantions, now it is alomst the complete opposite with Belarus as a puppet state for Moscow's wishes, that is exactly what Ukraine is now fighting against (russian expantion, like this year with crimea). Belarus still has a government in exile... Poland's officially ended in 1990 and Ukrainian in 1992. After the fall of communism, in Belarus and Russia in a sense, it never actually did fall. Russia just change their flag but continued their near autocracy, as for Belarus it still is a literally autocratic socialist rep. like it was under Stalin. We just have a new face, with the same red star on his hat. In a sense he is the one we should really worry about, as he could be the scapegoat for starting the war, Putin's war and his expantion plans, first we had Georgia, Crimea, now Ukraine... the tentions are growing.. and going north.. we have some ex-soviet malitias starting conflicts and Putins sayes the day with some white trucks... in a case of Belarus this could go back to the same global ideological conflict... "socialist republics" vs "capitalist democracies". Belarus-China Military Cooperation, 24 March 2014 "for the people!" :-] just like stalin, mao and lenin before them...
In a sense historically almost all Polish troubles with Moscow are mainly formed by the Poland unification with (ruthenian/old belarussian speaking) Lithuania (which included Belarus, and parts of Ukraine and more) originally they were the societies defending themselves from the agression from the east... Poland, when both states unified under the Polish crown... the mess with russian expantion shited westwards... subsequently with Poland losing a great deal of territory to russia, i 1945 with the Hitler-Stalin agreed partition of Poland, the curzon line as the east Polish boarder even today. (which in today's context makes Poland, and mainly Warsaw.. very vulnerable to any "crimea like" - russian agression, with belarus as russia's ally.
But going back to the comparison of Belarus and Ukraine state aspirations this century...
In Ukraine it is marginally similar in recent history, but in a matter of fact very different when you look back further in time... and the number of Ukrainian's, as there always was more distinct history and political movements there, also states... one might say that there is even more history there that in muscovite russia itself, with the Kievian rus as main example... the was no moscow, when there was already a strong settlement in Kiev.
blue=over80% ukrainian language *census 2001
anyhow... there is much much more you need to read up on Ukrainian history, before you want to make bold statements like that one.. and even more so, if you would want your "argument" to make any sense at all... ciao!
good start is languages...
(edited)
The Russians don't have all those soldiers at the border for nothing ... and they aren't shooting at Ukrainian army for nothing. They already invaded Crimea, eastern Ukraine is next.
unfortunately.
If you ask me the war, russian invasion of ukraine, started on 1 of march 2014. Today on the 14-th of august, we have russian military vehicles crossing the ukrainian border... again... :-]
(edited)
If you ask me the war, russian invasion of ukraine, started on 1 of march 2014. Today on the 14-th of august, we have russian military vehicles crossing the ukrainian border... again... :-]
(edited)
You should compare this map with one of the 1989.
Kazakhstan: 40% (there were more russian than kazaks)
Estonia: 30%
Latvia: 34%
Lithuania: 9.5%
Belarus: 13%
Ukraine: 22%
Moldova: 13%
Georgia: 6.3%
Armenia: 1.5%
Azerbajian: 5.5%
Uzbekistan: 8.5%
Turkmenistan: 9.5%
Kyrgyzstan: 21.5%
Tajikistan: 7.5%
It's hard to say russians are the bullies here...
Kazakhstan: 40% (there were more russian than kazaks)
Estonia: 30%
Latvia: 34%
Lithuania: 9.5%
Belarus: 13%
Ukraine: 22%
Moldova: 13%
Georgia: 6.3%
Armenia: 1.5%
Azerbajian: 5.5%
Uzbekistan: 8.5%
Turkmenistan: 9.5%
Kyrgyzstan: 21.5%
Tajikistan: 7.5%
It's hard to say russians are the bullies here...
Ukraine crisis: the neo-Nazi brigade fighting pro-Russian separatists
The fighters of the Azov battalion lined up in single file to say farewell to their fallen comrade. His pallid corpse lay under the sun in an open casket trimmed with blue velvet.
Some of the men placed carnations by the body, others roses. Many struck their chests with a closed fist before touching their dead friend’s arm. One fighter had an SS tattoo on his neck.
Sergiy Grek, 22, lost a leg and died from massive blood loss after a radio-controlled anti-tank mine exploded near to him.
As Ukraine’s armed forces tighten the noose around pro-Russian separatists in the east of the country, the western-backed government in Kiev is throwing militia groups – some openly neo-Nazi - into the front of the battle.
The Azov battalion has the most chilling reputation of all. Last week, it came to the fore as it mounted a bold attack on the rebel redoubt of Donetsk, striking deep into the suburbs of a city under siege.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11025137/Ukraine-crisis-the-neo-Nazi-brigade-fighting-pro-Russian-separatists.html
Ukraine conflict: 'White power' warrior from Sweden
The appearance of far-right activists, both foreign and home-grown, among the Ukrainian volunteers fighting in east Ukraine is causing unease.
Mikael Skillt is a Swedish sniper, with seven years' experience in the Swedish Army and the Swedish National Guard. He is currently fighting with the Azov Battalion, a pro-Ukrainian volunteer armed group in eastern Ukraine. He is known to be dangerous to the rebels: reportedly there is a bounty of nearly $7,000 (£4,090; 5,150 euros) on his head.
In a telephone conversation from an undisclosed location, Mr Skillt told me more about his duties: "I have at least three purposes in the Azov Battalion: I am a commander of a small reconnaissance unit, I am also a sniper, and sometimes I work as a special coordinator for clearing houses and going into civilian areas."
As to his political views, Mr Skillt prefers to call himself a nationalist, but in fact his views are typical of a neo-Nazi.
"It's all about how you see it," he says. "I would be an idiot if I said I did not want to see survival of white people. After World War Two, the victors wrote their history. They decided that it's always a bad thing to say I am white and I am proud."
'One stray liberal'
Mr Skillt believes races should not mix. He says the Jews are not white and should not mix with white people. His next project is to go fight for Syrian President Bashar al-Assad because he believes Mr Assad is standing up to "international Zionism".
Mikael Skillt in Ukraine
Mikael Skillt in Ukraine
Not all of Mr Skillt's views are widely shared in the Azov Battalion, which is about 300-strong in total.
He says his comrades do not discuss politics much, though some of them may be "national socialists" and may wear swastikas. On the other hand, "there is even one liberal, though I don't know how he got there", he adds, with a smile in his voice.
Mr Skillt says there is only a handful of foreign fighters in the Azov Battalion and they do not get paid. "They see it as a good thing, to come and fight," he explains. However, Mr Skillt is expecting more foreigners to join soon: he says there is now a recruiter who is looking for "serious fighters" from outside Ukraine.
The key figures in the Azov Battalion are its commander, Andriy Biletsky, and his deputy, Ihor Mosiychuk.
Andriy Biletsky is also the leader of a Ukrainian organisation called the Social National Assembly. Its aims are stated in one of their online publications:
"to prepare Ukraine for further expansion and to struggle for the liberation of the entire White Race from the domination of the internationalist speculative capital"
"to punish severely sexual perversions and any interracial contacts that lead to the extinction of the white man"
This, according to experts, is a typical neo-Nazi narrative.
'Foreign journalists'
The Azov Battalion was formed and armed by Ukraine's interior ministry. A ministerial adviser, Anton Gerashchenko, got angry when I asked him if the battalion had any neo-Nazi links through the Social National Assembly.
Azov Battalion fighters parading with flags in Kiev, 3 June
Azov Battalion fighters parading with the Wolfsangel banner favoured by neo-Nazis
Young women say goodbye to Azov Battalion fighters in Kiev, 23 June
Young women saying goodbye to Azov Battalion fighters in Kiev last month
Azov fighters guarding suspected rebels in Mariupol, eastern Ukraine, 13 June
Azov fighters guarding suspected rebels in Mariupol, eastern Ukraine, last month
"The Social National Assembly is not a neo-Nazi organisation," he said.
"It is a party of Ukrainian patriots who are giving their lives while the rich Europeans are only talking about supporting Ukraine. When, may I ask, will English people come here and help us fight terrorists sent by Russia's President [Vladimir] Putin, instead of lecturing us on our moral values or people's political affiliations?"
Mr Gerashchenko was adamant, however, that there were no foreign citizens fighting in the Azov Battalion.
Continue reading the main story
“
Start Quote
Neo-Nazis are as dangerous as pro-Russia extremists in Eastern Ukraine”
Anton Shekhovtsov
Expert on far right in Europe
"There are foreign journalists, from Sweden, Spain and Italy, who have come to report on the heroic achievements of the fighters in their struggle against terrorism," he said.
He insisted he had never heard of Mikael Skillt, the Swedish sniper.
Ukraine is a democratic state, which held a democratic election in May, where the far right and nationalist parties got hardly any votes. These views are not popular with the electorate.
But Anton Shekhovtsov, a prominent expert on far-right and neo-Nazi movements in Europe, believes the Ukrainian government should be clear about whom it is arming to fight for Ukraine's democratic cause.
"It is a pressing concern, especially with regards to the anti-terrorist operation," he said. "In my view, the war against pro-Russia separatists is the war for democratic values. Neo-Nazis are as dangerous as pro-Russia extremists in eastern Ukraine."
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28329329
The fighters of the Azov battalion lined up in single file to say farewell to their fallen comrade. His pallid corpse lay under the sun in an open casket trimmed with blue velvet.
Some of the men placed carnations by the body, others roses. Many struck their chests with a closed fist before touching their dead friend’s arm. One fighter had an SS tattoo on his neck.
Sergiy Grek, 22, lost a leg and died from massive blood loss after a radio-controlled anti-tank mine exploded near to him.
As Ukraine’s armed forces tighten the noose around pro-Russian separatists in the east of the country, the western-backed government in Kiev is throwing militia groups – some openly neo-Nazi - into the front of the battle.
The Azov battalion has the most chilling reputation of all. Last week, it came to the fore as it mounted a bold attack on the rebel redoubt of Donetsk, striking deep into the suburbs of a city under siege.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11025137/Ukraine-crisis-the-neo-Nazi-brigade-fighting-pro-Russian-separatists.html
Ukraine conflict: 'White power' warrior from Sweden
The appearance of far-right activists, both foreign and home-grown, among the Ukrainian volunteers fighting in east Ukraine is causing unease.
Mikael Skillt is a Swedish sniper, with seven years' experience in the Swedish Army and the Swedish National Guard. He is currently fighting with the Azov Battalion, a pro-Ukrainian volunteer armed group in eastern Ukraine. He is known to be dangerous to the rebels: reportedly there is a bounty of nearly $7,000 (£4,090; 5,150 euros) on his head.
In a telephone conversation from an undisclosed location, Mr Skillt told me more about his duties: "I have at least three purposes in the Azov Battalion: I am a commander of a small reconnaissance unit, I am also a sniper, and sometimes I work as a special coordinator for clearing houses and going into civilian areas."
As to his political views, Mr Skillt prefers to call himself a nationalist, but in fact his views are typical of a neo-Nazi.
"It's all about how you see it," he says. "I would be an idiot if I said I did not want to see survival of white people. After World War Two, the victors wrote their history. They decided that it's always a bad thing to say I am white and I am proud."
'One stray liberal'
Mr Skillt believes races should not mix. He says the Jews are not white and should not mix with white people. His next project is to go fight for Syrian President Bashar al-Assad because he believes Mr Assad is standing up to "international Zionism".
Mikael Skillt in Ukraine
Mikael Skillt in Ukraine
Not all of Mr Skillt's views are widely shared in the Azov Battalion, which is about 300-strong in total.
He says his comrades do not discuss politics much, though some of them may be "national socialists" and may wear swastikas. On the other hand, "there is even one liberal, though I don't know how he got there", he adds, with a smile in his voice.
Mr Skillt says there is only a handful of foreign fighters in the Azov Battalion and they do not get paid. "They see it as a good thing, to come and fight," he explains. However, Mr Skillt is expecting more foreigners to join soon: he says there is now a recruiter who is looking for "serious fighters" from outside Ukraine.
The key figures in the Azov Battalion are its commander, Andriy Biletsky, and his deputy, Ihor Mosiychuk.
Andriy Biletsky is also the leader of a Ukrainian organisation called the Social National Assembly. Its aims are stated in one of their online publications:
"to prepare Ukraine for further expansion and to struggle for the liberation of the entire White Race from the domination of the internationalist speculative capital"
"to punish severely sexual perversions and any interracial contacts that lead to the extinction of the white man"
This, according to experts, is a typical neo-Nazi narrative.
'Foreign journalists'
The Azov Battalion was formed and armed by Ukraine's interior ministry. A ministerial adviser, Anton Gerashchenko, got angry when I asked him if the battalion had any neo-Nazi links through the Social National Assembly.
Azov Battalion fighters parading with flags in Kiev, 3 June
Azov Battalion fighters parading with the Wolfsangel banner favoured by neo-Nazis
Young women say goodbye to Azov Battalion fighters in Kiev, 23 June
Young women saying goodbye to Azov Battalion fighters in Kiev last month
Azov fighters guarding suspected rebels in Mariupol, eastern Ukraine, 13 June
Azov fighters guarding suspected rebels in Mariupol, eastern Ukraine, last month
"The Social National Assembly is not a neo-Nazi organisation," he said.
"It is a party of Ukrainian patriots who are giving their lives while the rich Europeans are only talking about supporting Ukraine. When, may I ask, will English people come here and help us fight terrorists sent by Russia's President [Vladimir] Putin, instead of lecturing us on our moral values or people's political affiliations?"
Mr Gerashchenko was adamant, however, that there were no foreign citizens fighting in the Azov Battalion.
Continue reading the main story
“
Start Quote
Neo-Nazis are as dangerous as pro-Russia extremists in Eastern Ukraine”
Anton Shekhovtsov
Expert on far right in Europe
"There are foreign journalists, from Sweden, Spain and Italy, who have come to report on the heroic achievements of the fighters in their struggle against terrorism," he said.
He insisted he had never heard of Mikael Skillt, the Swedish sniper.
Ukraine is a democratic state, which held a democratic election in May, where the far right and nationalist parties got hardly any votes. These views are not popular with the electorate.
But Anton Shekhovtsov, a prominent expert on far-right and neo-Nazi movements in Europe, believes the Ukrainian government should be clear about whom it is arming to fight for Ukraine's democratic cause.
"It is a pressing concern, especially with regards to the anti-terrorist operation," he said. "In my view, the war against pro-Russia separatists is the war for democratic values. Neo-Nazis are as dangerous as pro-Russia extremists in eastern Ukraine."
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28329329
win/win situation right ? Eiter some nazi's or some pro-russian separist are dieng, so whats not to like ?
Its yours the facist "logic" not mine!
If you compare the neonazi with an ethnic minority you are the racist... ;)
If you compare the neonazi with an ethnic minority you are the racist... ;)
I doubt that you understand what I just said. And please try to make your sentence atleast readable.
in the ww2 the fascists were "sponsored ' to fight against russia, what now?
:)
:)
diamanti, omg... :-D again... "nigga please..." ;-p "you should compare this map with one of the 1989." lol, your lack of understanding history of eastern europe is astounding, if you write things like this.
Have you any concept at all, of communist russia, and their ways?
it is 100% clear that russians with their ideology are, and for at least the last 200 years, always were the bullies in the region... and not only there... no white convoy stunt, is going to change that... or indeed distruct anyone (except poor RT russian public viewers) from the actual movements of russian military.
Russian military vehicles crossed border
(this is an act of agression! / war by russian on Ukraine, nothing to add)
(edited)
Have you any concept at all, of communist russia, and their ways?
it is 100% clear that russians with their ideology are, and for at least the last 200 years, always were the bullies in the region... and not only there... no white convoy stunt, is going to change that... or indeed distruct anyone (except poor RT russian public viewers) from the actual movements of russian military.
Russian military vehicles crossed border
(this is an act of agression! / war by russian on Ukraine, nothing to add)
(edited)