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Subject: »NEWS AROUND THE WORLD
their origin is EU :-). We all live in EU.
(their real origin in about India or more east and so... before 2thousands years maybe, but I dont know it exactly)
And law is valid for all people, you can not choose that for some group it is valid and for another group it is not valid law.
(their real origin in about India or more east and so... before 2thousands years maybe, but I dont know it exactly)
And law is valid for all people, you can not choose that for some group it is valid and for another group it is not valid law.
Their origin are the Eastern European countries. I'm not talking about the origin of their people a thousand years ago, I'm talking about their own origin. So tell me, where did I say I wanted to abolish that law?
And I said for people who have done a serious criminal offence or have fallen repeatably into criminality.
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And I said for people who have done a serious criminal offence or have fallen repeatably into criminality.
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There are problems already for a long time, you should know making a comment like that :)
I mean more severe problems such as car bombs and terrorism...
I mean more severe problems such as car bombs and terrorism...
so, it must be written in that law, that free move can be cancel for people who broke law by some criminal acts. You said that EU can send them home, but it is not in that law about free move, just you said it !
You can not say that your own rule are EU rule :-). Show me where is written that free move in EU is not valid for people who broke law.
And tell me, thatt gypsies were arrested...M are they in a jail or were they in a jail....
you can not consider your opinion for EU law !
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You can not say that your own rule are EU rule :-). Show me where is written that free move in EU is not valid for people who broke law.
And tell me, thatt gypsies were arrested...M are they in a jail or were they in a jail....
you can not consider your opinion for EU law !
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I never said it was EU law. I said we can, if we make that law of course. It is just my opinion.
With some countries, it does exist. For instance, Belgium has an agreement with Morocco about Moroccan criminals in Belgium, who go back to Morocco to sit out their jail time there.
Btw, it seems the Roma are a very close community, and are asocial to persons outside the community. They don't respect the laws concerning for instance education, as they don't think it's important. Then why should other people in the country - for instance Slovakia - pay for people who don't want to be a part of your society?
With some countries, it does exist. For instance, Belgium has an agreement with Morocco about Moroccan criminals in Belgium, who go back to Morocco to sit out their jail time there.
Btw, it seems the Roma are a very close community, and are asocial to persons outside the community. They don't respect the laws concerning for instance education, as they don't think it's important. Then why should other people in the country - for instance Slovakia - pay for people who don't want to be a part of your society?
I am not surprised that France force them to leave. I just know that all EU with its human rights and democracy is just funny institute where everybody can have its own rules, but most of old members are declaring another rules :-)
Slovakia wanted go to EU because:
- bigger market, very good for economy
- not Russian influence, but pure western democracy (but it was fairy tale, as we can see now :-( )
- free move of capital, people and so (but just free move of capital is good for western europe, free move they dont like now, but they should tell if first, austria has blocked labour market many years after slovakia get in EU :-( )
- common EU army (but this dont exist, there is just nato :-( )
- historical join of whole EU /just WW1 and 2 divided it)
- EU supervision, so every country must meet some basic goals (inflation, loan of gdp and so)
there was more advances, but now back to reality.
- big market, good for economy but a lot of dysfunctions like different grants for agriculture and so
- not Russian influence, but US influence
- free move of capital, but not free move for everybody (for poor states or gypsies not)
- common EU army still doesnt exist, just nato
- historical join is here, but join people will take much more time, western people think that they are better than eastern :-(
- Eu supervision is big epic fail, very good and disciplined eastern states meet in old EU pigs states with huge loans and collapses
so dont be surprise, that if you are telling your opinion on free move which is different against that which was presented before countries entrance into EU can make us angry.
I must repeat, I can understand France :-), but this is not EU, this is backstep to protectionism.
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Slovakia wanted go to EU because:
- bigger market, very good for economy
- not Russian influence, but pure western democracy (but it was fairy tale, as we can see now :-( )
- free move of capital, people and so (but just free move of capital is good for western europe, free move they dont like now, but they should tell if first, austria has blocked labour market many years after slovakia get in EU :-( )
- common EU army (but this dont exist, there is just nato :-( )
- historical join of whole EU /just WW1 and 2 divided it)
- EU supervision, so every country must meet some basic goals (inflation, loan of gdp and so)
there was more advances, but now back to reality.
- big market, good for economy but a lot of dysfunctions like different grants for agriculture and so
- not Russian influence, but US influence
- free move of capital, but not free move for everybody (for poor states or gypsies not)
- common EU army still doesnt exist, just nato
- historical join is here, but join people will take much more time, western people think that they are better than eastern :-(
- Eu supervision is big epic fail, very good and disciplined eastern states meet in old EU pigs states with huge loans and collapses
so dont be surprise, that if you are telling your opinion on free move which is different against that which was presented before countries entrance into EU can make us angry.
I must repeat, I can understand France :-), but this is not EU, this is backstep to protectionism.
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rumpil, you need to accept the hierarchy of INT laws and own suverenity.
Acctually, as you cannot take the whole control of the foreing citizen even on your coutryplace (in a principal that by law you could kill them if they commit some hard crime because their country would, let's say, attack you), you CAN banish foreing citizens as they are breaking your laws.
If we will have only one state, called European union, than it won't be correct.
I believe Rubinho is correct.
Acctually, as you cannot take the whole control of the foreing citizen even on your coutryplace (in a principal that by law you could kill them if they commit some hard crime because their country would, let's say, attack you), you CAN banish foreing citizens as they are breaking your laws.
If we will have only one state, called European union, than it won't be correct.
I believe Rubinho is correct.
so what was about that fairy tales about free move :-) ?
free move is.. go to western europe if you are IT expert or you have plenty of money or you are tourist, but dont go to western europe if you want just job or better life.
but on the other hand - to capital:
open borders to our capital, loans and dont try to prohibit this, use our money, buy our products and never close it, we need export and employment in western europe.
or what should we think about this "rules" ?
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free move is.. go to western europe if you are IT expert or you have plenty of money or you are tourist, but dont go to western europe if you want just job or better life.
but on the other hand - to capital:
open borders to our capital, loans and dont try to prohibit this, use our money, buy our products and never close it, we need export and employment in western europe.
or what should we think about this "rules" ?
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I believe Rubinho is correct.
Wow, the first Slovakian I agree with :p
Wow, the first Slovakian I agree with :p
You have a wrong image about democracy. Democracy for me is:
1. The people have the power to elect their representatives.
2. There is a relatively high freedom of speech and freedom of media.
That's it. It has nothing to do with which laws. If the majority in the parliament for instance wants to accept racism, it is not a violation of democracy. However, it will be an offence of International Law and Human Rights of course.
1. The people have the power to elect their representatives.
2. There is a relatively high freedom of speech and freedom of media.
That's it. It has nothing to do with which laws. If the majority in the parliament for instance wants to accept racism, it is not a violation of democracy. However, it will be an offence of International Law and Human Rights of course.
rumpil, it is a ideology what EU would like to create. And if this idealogy would be real in future, I'd accept it.
But first, don't be mistaken by the propaganda.
Second, there is no free move by EU but Shengen (? cannot spell it ;)).
Third, there are NO EU laws, only INT pacts. And the pact, let's say, about free move, isn't eqal to crime law or something like this. (well, I just found out my English sucks ;))
In this way, still you are a sovereign state what is more and you need to, by your primary purpose, protect your citizens. So, you don't have capacity to protect them in your country (end you cannot use non-human solutions ;)), you can say goodbye to them. They are not your citizens! (until there will be an EU citizenship)
(btw, don't be mistaken; I am not for EU, just trying to be objective. However former EU principals are good, why not)
But first, don't be mistaken by the propaganda.
Second, there is no free move by EU but Shengen (? cannot spell it ;)).
Third, there are NO EU laws, only INT pacts. And the pact, let's say, about free move, isn't eqal to crime law or something like this. (well, I just found out my English sucks ;))
In this way, still you are a sovereign state what is more and you need to, by your primary purpose, protect your citizens. So, you don't have capacity to protect them in your country (end you cannot use non-human solutions ;)), you can say goodbye to them. They are not your citizens! (until there will be an EU citizenship)
(btw, don't be mistaken; I am not for EU, just trying to be objective. However former EU principals are good, why not)
heh, just to your fist pont - I have heard a quotation once: If election could change anything, they would abandon it long time before. :)
agree with that
Elections are there only to give people illusion that they can actually decide about something and that there is real democracy. But in fact they have no options what to do if they are unsatisfied with their representatives and there is practically no direct democracy.
Parties do not care about people, they see them as voters only. They pay many millions euro for advertisiment campaigns (they earn it back from public money). All parties make plenty of populistic movements and they are able to promise everything. But after elections, they immediately forgot about them and they dont care about people anymore. I will never stop asking myself why people vote such parties again and again, it is one of the biggest mysteries for me.
Yes, there is freedom of speech, but many people are afraid to say what they think, because they could be fired from work. Also media can be under influence of powerful economic structures, as it happened in last days with the 2nd most readed newspeaper here. Fortunately we have many more resources nowadays.
Elections are there only to give people illusion that they can actually decide about something and that there is real democracy. But in fact they have no options what to do if they are unsatisfied with their representatives and there is practically no direct democracy.
Parties do not care about people, they see them as voters only. They pay many millions euro for advertisiment campaigns (they earn it back from public money). All parties make plenty of populistic movements and they are able to promise everything. But after elections, they immediately forgot about them and they dont care about people anymore. I will never stop asking myself why people vote such parties again and again, it is one of the biggest mysteries for me.
Yes, there is freedom of speech, but many people are afraid to say what they think, because they could be fired from work. Also media can be under influence of powerful economic structures, as it happened in last days with the 2nd most readed newspeaper here. Fortunately we have many more resources nowadays.
1. "EU laws" was just a "picture"... of course that free of moving is generated by many national laws in all countries..... But it is idea of "EU".
2. If somebody is abusing free move, every state has jail, every state can solve this. Andrwa, try to imagine what would EU do, if we send all gypsies just to eastern part of slovakia :-D !!!!!
you can not have double meter in EU / different opinions and acts on same problem.
But I agree, EU in fact doesnt exist, most of states dont like it, every states is doing his own politics even in areas where it should be common. so eu is ill but nobody is going to cancel this, so I must consider EU as fact so it should work. EU is great idea ! and I like it, but this ill version is not so nice :-(
3. Rubinho.. democracy in most of states in EU had governments which accepted their national laws about free move. If somebody is abusing system and criminal, should go to jail.
ok Rubinho one question for you. Can Slovakia send all gypsies criminals to 10km square place in some part of eastern slovakia ???
2. If somebody is abusing free move, every state has jail, every state can solve this. Andrwa, try to imagine what would EU do, if we send all gypsies just to eastern part of slovakia :-D !!!!!
you can not have double meter in EU / different opinions and acts on same problem.
But I agree, EU in fact doesnt exist, most of states dont like it, every states is doing his own politics even in areas where it should be common. so eu is ill but nobody is going to cancel this, so I must consider EU as fact so it should work. EU is great idea ! and I like it, but this ill version is not so nice :-(
3. Rubinho.. democracy in most of states in EU had governments which accepted their national laws about free move. If somebody is abusing system and criminal, should go to jail.
ok Rubinho one question for you. Can Slovakia send all gypsies criminals to 10km square place in some part of eastern slovakia ???
Of course not. If you think I'd answer that affirmative, you don't understand a s*** of what I'm saying.
And by the way, free move within a country is also one of the basic 'rules' of a democracy.
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And by the way, free move within a country is also one of the basic 'rules' of a democracy.
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