Subject: Nuclear power debate: yes or no?

You'd never get a majority of any population to accept spending freely on something like energy production.

never say nevere, and trust people!!!
:P

Seriosly.
the point is obviously how much...

how much do we pay now, how much more are we able to spend?
what are the benefits I gain changin the production in a "green" one?
how much do I value them?

I don't think the answer is so sure as you do...

nationalization of TEPCO

profit for private, costs for collectivity..

Dude, you're the one making claims without wanting to do the research. Linking to a common google search is the laziest thing possible.

Btw I dont get people talking about cheap energy. I use electricity on a commercial basis. 5 years ago I paided 11 cents for 1kwh now I pay 23 cents. Just in 5 years more than the double. Its defenitely not cheap now. Thats because 3 companies own the market, there is no free market. Only a decentralised market would deal with this powerabuse. Thats exactly what they fear so much about pp and sp, because any houseowner can do it by himself.

How Big Oil Controlled the U.S. Photovoltaic Industry. And this is only an example of Photovoltaic Industry. There are many more industries imvolved. Just read :)

I've only skimmed it, and I haven't checked any of the information given. But I have no reason in believing it should not be true.

But the example is hardly one of some secret and brilliant source of energy beeing held back. It's common solar power. If anything it's an example of a hardliner take on business - buying out the competitors. If the competitors felt they could make more money staying in business themselves, they probably would.

Plus it's just a big mess of innuendo. Fact is, that developement into solar power is still ever evolving to this day. And that major energy companies are both at the forefront of much of the research - and needed if it is to be materialized.

Let me give you an example: Here in Denmark the main target of the usual accusations against the oil business is DONG - Dansk Olie og Naturgas Selskab. But at the same time as the company drills for oil and natural gas and supply most Danes with heating and electricity from fossil fuelled power plants, it's also one the world's biggest investors in wind power and other sources of green energy, mainly biofuel. It's the owner of some of the world's largest off shore wind mill farms, and it has just commissioned the largest yet to be built during the next couple of years.

The world isn't black and white. And oil companies aren't worse than any other major industry. If there's money to be made, they'll do it. If not, they'll stay away. That is why profitability is the key.

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I will try to find a better example but it's not that easy to find as there is a reason these things aren't made public :) It's not that if someone can't prove the 'secret' it must be a conspiracy theory. That's not really of this world right?

And ofcourse the world isn't black/white, but I think you have way to much trust in major companies en industries that has no soul or heart and will never act by that.

EDIT: I've searched but it's not that easy at all :P
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I don't trust any company - small or large - to have neither heart nor soul. But I trust any corporation to have a strong interrest in making money. And nothing is more profitable than the chance of becoming the world's major supplier of the energy of the future. There is no such thing as free energy. So if the brilliant solution is out there, be sure it's going to be capitalized.

if it can..
elseware, let destroy it or hide it 'til we can..

Tell me then, how would it even be possible to hide this technology that everyone craves? Do you even comprehend the magnitude of the conspiracy needed? And the many means any whistleblower would have in this day and age?

Your reasoning makes just as much sence as any conspiracy theorist. But then again, that's what these assumptions are: Conspiracy theory. Noone can proove, that the miracle technology isn't out there somewhere hiding in a secret vault beneath a nuclear power plant with the knowledge of none but a small ring of lords of the darkness. So you'll just assume it is.

Please, for once, make a reasonable respond to one of my points. Answer me on this one. How would a conspiracy like that be possible? Don't you think someone somewhere "with heart and soul", not least the inventor himself, would make an effort to make the technology known?

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what conspirancy theory are you talking about?

I said something that is simplier
If someone seach for profit will do anything gives him money and mantain or raise his position in the market.
This mean that if new discovery can potentially disturb his business he will try to stop them, without any need of conspirate it with anyone.

plus there's to considerate what anyone knows.. big industries and company prefer to accord to separate their market and keep prices at the level that meke the large profit for thier business, concorrency is a LIE.. I'm surprised someone still believe in.
I think they simply have similar interest and so do similar pression on theri government, your tv, youn newspapers,
that tell you to think exactly that..
you have to believe in:
market, concorrency, business for the greater glory of the world..

Is this a conspirancy theory?
no, it's simply looking at their interest..

(my poor english does not permit me to be more specific. exscuse me!!)

Let me clarify for you: invention and research aren't free, they are very expensive things. The scientists don't work for free; the labs can't work without water, electricity etc. and these aren't free; seriously, you have no idea how this is working. (maybe one idea from 10000 or 100000 is proven to be viable, but the companies/universities have to pay the other research too before you can say 'eh, it won't work'...)

If you want patents to be free, then you have to find the funds for research. Good luck with that. Seriously, it seems to me that you want to work scientists free - do you do that yourself?

I think you misundestood me..

I've got a lot of reseachers for friends here in Italy, and in other countries.
none of them is paid by profit made with their discoveries..
..the point of intellectual property is really a weak answer, if somethig is needed by people we can choose to pay as collectivity what we need as collectivity..

Do you even read my postings?

My point is, that the opportunity to create a new monopoly on something as important and extremely profitable as energy supply is the exact reason, any corporation would do it, if it had the chance. I - like you - have no trust in corporations, other than they will always do what's profitable.

And you still haven't answered, how it would be possible to keep a secret so big as miracle technology on energy production secret? So I repeat myself: Please, for once, try to answer one of my questions. Just like I try to answer yours.

Another great video with Barry Brook:
http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/30/fukushima-philosophical-discussion-open-thread/

I can only add +1. Apart from the looks and the lisp it's like watching myself. :)
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what secret?
there's no need to keep any secret..
it's enough to make people think there's no alternatives,
this is quite simple, it need only to have a certain control in information distribution.

And who in this world control information distribution? Who controls people with knowledge? Who controls the media? Who controls the internet? It's just a silly conspiracy claim, that anyone would have the power to keep something like that down. And why you insist on not calling it a secret, I don't know. I don't get the point. Or your argument. To be honest I think it's gibberish.
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