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Subject: Nuclear power debate: yes or no?
Coming back to an earlier point raised by Charles_hill on the complot theorires. I don't think it is that bad, but to a certain extent it is true that there are legal barriers hindering the dissemination of renewable energy technologies. If you would want to buy a windmill together with all the people in your district, the current situation is that you have to deliver the power to the grid and then buy it back from the grid. You're not allowed to make a micro-grid, so that you have only one connection to the main grid with all the people in your district (to deliver energy to the grid, or take energy from the grid when the wind doesn't blow). Since you have to sell the energy to the grid, the economic viability of such a system goes drastically down.
I don't think we can say that it is a conspiracy though. On the other hand it favors large scale solutions like solar plants and the sahara and off-shore wind farms. That could in the end be better strategies to get the energy we need.
I don't think we can say that it is a conspiracy though. On the other hand it favors large scale solutions like solar plants and the sahara and off-shore wind farms. That could in the end be better strategies to get the energy we need.
Beeing a part of the grid is necessary by the way. It's the only way to make use of the electricity. Regarding prize I don't know how it works in Holland. But here in Denmark the private owners of wind mills are compensated a lot. They are guaranteed a higher prize for the electricity, they put into the grid, than the electricity they take out of it.
In fact quite a few of the die hard nuclear enthusiast on the forum for engineers I've mentioned earlier has their own or a share in a "backyard wind mill". Because it's good business for them.
Generally a lot of subsidies are put into wind power in Denmark. Generally by paying overprize for the electricity generated by them. If there weren't any subsidies, there probably wouldn't be any wind mills either in Denmark. When a huge off shore farm was scheduled last year, the state had to accept guaranteeing the power supply corporation behind a staggering prize per kWh to make it reality. The overprize is roughly 14 billion kroner ~ 1,9 billion euros over the next 12 years as I remember. The wind mill farm has a max output of 400 MW in ideal wind conditions.
In fact quite a few of the die hard nuclear enthusiast on the forum for engineers I've mentioned earlier has their own or a share in a "backyard wind mill". Because it's good business for them.
Generally a lot of subsidies are put into wind power in Denmark. Generally by paying overprize for the electricity generated by them. If there weren't any subsidies, there probably wouldn't be any wind mills either in Denmark. When a huge off shore farm was scheduled last year, the state had to accept guaranteeing the power supply corporation behind a staggering prize per kWh to make it reality. The overprize is roughly 14 billion kroner ~ 1,9 billion euros over the next 12 years as I remember. The wind mill farm has a max output of 400 MW in ideal wind conditions.
It is in such a way that you have to have a separate connection to each household (according to the guy that gave us a lecture this morning). That means that you cannot operate a micro-grid, (with only one connection to the outside). In the Netherlands there is some support as well, but not as much as in Denmark.
When I've second thoughts about it, it is also logical in a way as there are taxes on the electricity you take from the grid. Quite a lot of the price difference was in this taxes.
When I've second thoughts about it, it is also logical in a way as there are taxes on the electricity you take from the grid. Quite a lot of the price difference was in this taxes.
As I understood, the Netherlands was for a long time an electricity-island, with that some electricity companies were in charge of all (we paid way to much because of that), and the Netherlands is also a gas-producing country. Both didn't really help the development of renewable energy :) We can't expect them to promote it and they didn't.
When finally a decision is made to start with renewable energy, lawsuits makes it impossible to start. The Netherlands is a bit crowded and many don't want wind mills in their backyard.
On the other hand, the current inefficient wind mills aren't really good renewable energy sources anyhow. Behind every major wind park another power station has to be build and kept operational for the moment the wind stops blowing. They can't say, no wind no electricity :P And you can't switch off a power station when you don't need it for a few hours of days.
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When finally a decision is made to start with renewable energy, lawsuits makes it impossible to start. The Netherlands is a bit crowded and many don't want wind mills in their backyard.
On the other hand, the current inefficient wind mills aren't really good renewable energy sources anyhow. Behind every major wind park another power station has to be build and kept operational for the moment the wind stops blowing. They can't say, no wind no electricity :P And you can't switch off a power station when you don't need it for a few hours of days.
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An average euro-american needs 100-200 kwh/day.
1/3 is motionpower (fuel)
1/3 is heating-cooling
the rest are common services
National energy plans are made on this assumptions.
Who makes these important estimations ? Guess what ?
Mostlly the same one who sells you electricity.
I´ll give you nuke-boys an interesting exercise.
Go and count how many lamps, frigor, pc and so on are running
in your home right now. Done ? Multiply x 24 x 3 and so you have
approximatively your kwh/d. Done ?
Uh. Uh. Where the hell are the other 100-140 kwh/d ?
1/3 is motionpower (fuel)
1/3 is heating-cooling
the rest are common services
National energy plans are made on this assumptions.
Who makes these important estimations ? Guess what ?
Mostlly the same one who sells you electricity.
I´ll give you nuke-boys an interesting exercise.
Go and count how many lamps, frigor, pc and so on are running
in your home right now. Done ? Multiply x 24 x 3 and so you have
approximatively your kwh/d. Done ?
Uh. Uh. Where the hell are the other 100-140 kwh/d ?
Do you live with the lights, heating, water, gas and everything else on? Yes?
Well done, you found it! Here, have a lollipop.
Well done, you found it! Here, have a lollipop.
if you turn all on your main switch will stop it .
you have absolutely no chanche to consume 100 kwh/d.
and your wife and your sister and grandma and so on.
and if someonelse is wasting so huge amounts of energy why shoud you risk your life living near a nuclear plant ?
thanks for the lollipop
you have absolutely no chanche to consume 100 kwh/d.
and your wife and your sister and grandma and so on.
and if someonelse is wasting so huge amounts of energy why shoud you risk your life living near a nuclear plant ?
thanks for the lollipop
Firstly, there has been no conclusive proof that nuclear plants cause illness.
Secondly, when I was working with an engineering company for work experience - we made a couple of fairly big turbines (over a metre tall at least), about three or four using CAD/CAM. It couldn't power an LED advertising sign. And thats when it was fairly windy. In the end they only kept the miniturbines for aesthetics and powered it regularly. It had the same energy requirement in one day as me charging my laptop for about 8 hours.
Nuclear has a lot more advantages than disadvantages personally.
Secondly, when I was working with an engineering company for work experience - we made a couple of fairly big turbines (over a metre tall at least), about three or four using CAD/CAM. It couldn't power an LED advertising sign. And thats when it was fairly windy. In the end they only kept the miniturbines for aesthetics and powered it regularly. It had the same energy requirement in one day as me charging my laptop for about 8 hours.
Nuclear has a lot more advantages than disadvantages personally.
Well if you are so confident you can buy cheap land in Japan right now.
The power of a wind turbine grows with radius^2 so your turbines were simply too small.
You should better build just one but big enough. A small wind turbine requires almost the same maintenaince intervals of a very large one and so it is really a bad idea to build small ones.
But i will not try to convince you.
The power of a wind turbine grows with radius^2 so your turbines were simply too small.
You should better build just one but big enough. A small wind turbine requires almost the same maintenaince intervals of a very large one and so it is really a bad idea to build small ones.
But i will not try to convince you.
It was a LED sign. There was no point in building a huge one.
I have a bunch of huge wind turbines near my house on the coast. They spend at lot of their time not spinning very fast at even in wind. The fact is, any wind power or solar power is ineffective due to unreliablity. Hydroelectric dams and the suchlike still are a lot slower at producing energy, so until a better solution comes up, nuclear is fine way to go.
I have a bunch of huge wind turbines near my house on the coast. They spend at lot of their time not spinning very fast at even in wind. The fact is, any wind power or solar power is ineffective due to unreliablity. Hydroelectric dams and the suchlike still are a lot slower at producing energy, so until a better solution comes up, nuclear is fine way to go.
Well done, you found it! Here, have a lollipop.
LOL
Besides fossil fuel right now being the only reasonable replacement for nuclear power, you forgot that Hydroelectric dams have probably the worst ecological impact of them.
LOL
Besides fossil fuel right now being the only reasonable replacement for nuclear power, you forgot that Hydroelectric dams have probably the worst ecological impact of them.
You know how long it takes before a nuclear power stations is build and really 100% operational, producing megawatts? These things aren't build tomorrow and operational the next year ;) New nuclear power stations operational in eight years, says Lib Dem Chris Huhne, (oh, and in the next link you can find the reality of the estimated 8 years)
And ofcourse the costs, Nuclear Does Not Make Economic Sense Say Studies (already posted this but don't think anybody has read it).
I've read a good question on a blog, would you let a construction company that only builds 1 apartment each 10 years build your apartment thinking this will be safe? ;)
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And ofcourse the costs, Nuclear Does Not Make Economic Sense Say Studies (already posted this but don't think anybody has read it).
I've read a good question on a blog, would you let a construction company that only builds 1 apartment each 10 years build your apartment thinking this will be safe? ;)
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