Subject: Nuclear power debate: yes or no?

I agree that it's a problem society must help to bear the risks in case of a serious accident. But some things are just too big for any private entrepreneur to take on. And the nuclear industry is one of the very few that's liable for damages caused by natural disasters. Most others are not responsible for damages caused by freak accidents.

Most countries have a strong regulation on liability, where the state only covers in excess of certain amount of money: http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf67.html

About Japan:
Japan is not party to any international liability convention but its law generally conforms to them. Two laws governing them are revised about every ten years: the Law on Compensation for Nuclear Damage and Law on Contract for Liability Insurance for Nuclear Damage. Plant operator liability is exclusive and absolute, and power plant operators must provide a financial security amount of JPY 120 billion (US$ 1.4 billion) - half that to 2010. Beyond that, the government provides coverage, and liability is unlimited. In relation to the 1999 Tokai-mura fuel plant criticality accident, insurance covered JPY 1 billion and the parent company (Sumitomo) paid the balance of JPY 13.5 billion.

Regarding nationalization it's my interpretation it would be done (if its' done in the case of TEPCO) to make sure, the state get's it's money back somehow.
(edited)

Regarding nationalization it's my interpretation it would be done (if its' done in the case of TEPCO) to make sure, the state get's it's money back somehow.

how?

that's amazing, in front of evidence like those (remember for example that there are no insurance companies that assure nuke companies.. in the whole world!!!! ) you still think "they will surely do it right"

and LOL for the link, i bet you'll ask to the World Killers Association how to live safetely your life!!!
:)

edit:
I read your edit so I was right,
the japan will pay! tax payers pay for nuke in every way: lives, money, land!!!
(edited)

How must TEPCO repay that, make the electricity they sell more expansive? The Japanese will eventually pay for this environmental and economical disaster. Or with the electricity bill or tax-money, but they will pay, and probably everyone in the world will pay a small amount of money for these disasters as 1 of the largest economies in the world is hit.

i hope they invent rain power :(
then ireland will have no problems

Fukushima is in no way comparable to Chernobyl. Noone comparing the facts could claim that.

It is not comparable, it is worse.

Chernobil was a human failure. It can happen. If somone makes stupid things you cannot prevent this. Someone fly with an airplane on your plant or bomb it . What can you do?

Fukujima is a design failure. Power plants are designed to resist cathastrofic events and project previsions were false. Choose a site 10 m higher on sea and nothing happens. Safety redudancy was poor. The ABS on your car is a much more sophisticated system than the cooling system in Fukuijma.

It is not comparable, it is worse.

Holy hyperbole batman!

Besides that I don't think you have anything on me when talking about an already made up and unchangeable mind. Reread this thread if you need any evidence. Nothing sticks on you. You're like teflon.

Would you be surprised that you leave others with exactly the same impression?

You and him as much as I look at this technology in a completely different way.

How must TEPCO repay that, make the electricity they sell more expansive? The Japanese will eventually pay for this environmental and economical disaster. Or with the electricity bill or tax-money, but they will pay, and probably everyone in the world will pay a small amount of money for these disasters as 1 of the largest economies in the world is hit.

However TEPCO pays the bill the money will always come from the consumers. That's the only money they've got. By nationalizing or partly nationalizing the state gets a share of the companys profit. So in time the state will get the money back.

It is not comparable, it is worse.

Chernobil was a human failure. It can happen. If somone makes stupid things you cannot prevent this. Someone fly with an airplane on your plant or bomb it . What can you do?

Fukujima is a design failure. Power plants are designed to resist cathastrofic events and project previsions were false. Choose a site 10 m higher on sea and nothing happens. Safety redudancy was poor. The ABS on your car is a much more sophisticated system than the cooling system in Fukuijma.

You don't make any sence. The disaster is worse because of the reason - not the outcome? Get real.

Besides that you show your lack of knowledge on this subject. The disaster at Chernobyl was a case of poor design if anything. Firstly the reactor design was of an unstable kind that has never been allowed in OECD countries. Secondly the reactor was built without containment. This is why the magnitude of the disaster was sig big. The core was totally exposed when the roof blew off - unlike Fukushima. No western reactors has ever been built without secure containment.

guys..who read german ??? Can you check this ?
(I read something about taht EU allowed higher radiation limit for food from japan... I hope this is not true)

http://www.salzburg.com/online/homepage/aktuell/Japan-EU-erhoeht-Strahlen-Grenzwerte-fuer-Essen.html?article=eGMmOI8VfZB7Id7zlZTiq1wsiw1Xi9opRgLzYM4&img=&text=&mode


this is in english....
http://economicsnewspaper.com/policy/german/expert-relaxed-radiation-exposure-limits-for-food-7251.html

this is interesting too..

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42402150/ns/world_news-asiapacific/

TOKYO — The effort to contain Japan's nuclear crisis on Sunday came to this: Engineers mixed together sawdust, shredded newspapers and chemicals used in diapers in the hopes that would plug a radioactive leak into the sea.
....
Engineers mixed nearly 20 pounds of a chemical absorbent, 130 pounds of sawdust and three garbage bags of shredded newspapers into pipes leading to a pit connected to the Unit 2 reactor, NISA stated.
....

newspaper... I cant believe... but maybe it is normal, I really dont know......but I think world have much more suitable materials as newspaper... but I am just simple man, no expert on nuclear energy :-)

That english translation makes my head hurt, I'll have to see relative levels of radiation though, perhaps compare it to number of cigarettes per portion to create a layman's comparison ;)

I'm not talking about damage at all. the point is:

If the chernobyl staff had operated according to their SOP nothing would happen.
Fukuishima is a quite different case. The staff had no chanche to avoid the disaster.
The site was a wrong pick. Do you think they roll dices to find an adequate site for a nuclear plant ? They search it for years and check almost anything. And it was wrong.

(btw the fukushima incident is still running and far from its end. right now many people lives between 20-30 km from the plant " on their own risk", so it will be easy to remove them from the refundable collateral damage list.)
(edited)

However TEPCO pays the bill the money will always come from the consumers. That's the only money they've got. By nationalizing or partly nationalizing the state gets a share of the companys profit. So in time the state will get the money back.

And how high will this bill become?


I watched a docu last night, very interesting. Was about the earth and why it can sustain live. It's not about nuclear power, just the Earth but a link is easily made. You don't want to put something on top of this unpredictable changing earth, that's safe as long as all systems works fine, like nuclear power stations. Japan is the best example why not. Did they think of everything? Yes eeuh NO they can't, impossible.


(part 1/10)

That mix is very powerful if you want to bound water. You will essentially get a plastic plug in the leak.

ok. that's good..... I am working in construction company... that was maybe reason why I was so surprised :-)