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Subject: Ready for the most racist tournament ever?
btw. I'm a bit amazed how many people attended the open trainings...:O most of them were full, even 15-20k people
Amazing indeed, Holland has 25k people watching the training today.
Amazing indeed, Holland has 25k people watching the training today.
Hey Borkos what about this ? And the tournament didnt even started yet!
Tijdens de eerste voor publiek opengestelde training van het Nederlandse elftal in Polen, heeft de harde kern van het plaatselijke Wisla Krakow zich meteen van zijn minste kant laten zien. Bij het warmlopen werden de Nederlandse vedetten geconfronteerd met oerwoudgeluiden.
Bondscoach Bert van Marwijk reageerde meteen door zijn jongens te laten trainen aan de andere kant van het veld, een simpele maar efficiënte manier om deze hooligans een hak te zetten. Bij Oranje spelen met Nigel de Jong, Jetro Willems, Michel Vorm, Gregory van der Wiel en Luciano Narsingh vijf gekleurde jongens.
I shall translate it for you :
Hooligans from Wisla chanted jungle/monkey noises to the black players of "Oranje".
I really hope you are right and we dont get more of this stupid incidents!
(edited)
Tijdens de eerste voor publiek opengestelde training van het Nederlandse elftal in Polen, heeft de harde kern van het plaatselijke Wisla Krakow zich meteen van zijn minste kant laten zien. Bij het warmlopen werden de Nederlandse vedetten geconfronteerd met oerwoudgeluiden.
Bondscoach Bert van Marwijk reageerde meteen door zijn jongens te laten trainen aan de andere kant van het veld, een simpele maar efficiënte manier om deze hooligans een hak te zetten. Bij Oranje spelen met Nigel de Jong, Jetro Willems, Michel Vorm, Gregory van der Wiel en Luciano Narsingh vijf gekleurde jongens.
I shall translate it for you :
Hooligans from Wisla chanted jungle/monkey noises to the black players of "Oranje".
I really hope you are right and we dont get more of this stupid incidents!
(edited)
stupid people like that, you can find everywhere... soccer is the excuse they need just to be themselves: racist assholes.
some countries are more racist, some are less, but MOST of them, simple ARE. We love to think we are tolerant modern people of the XXI century and stuff like that, but, let 100 soccer fans hide in the crowd, and you´ll find 90 sheeps saying shit about blacks, homsexuals, jews, etc, etc.
it´s not a problem of eastern europe countries, in my opinion. It´s a cancer spread all over the world.
(edited)
some countries are more racist, some are less, but MOST of them, simple ARE. We love to think we are tolerant modern people of the XXI century and stuff like that, but, let 100 soccer fans hide in the crowd, and you´ll find 90 sheeps saying shit about blacks, homsexuals, jews, etc, etc.
it´s not a problem of eastern europe countries, in my opinion. It´s a cancer spread all over the world.
(edited)
So I wonder why I didnt read any of this related stuf when EURO was held in Swiss/Austria in 2008 ? Or Portugal 2004 ? Or Holland/Belgium 2000 ?
Please do tell me ?
Please do tell me ?
I live in spain, I see the fans doing the monkey sounds every sunday. Do you think italy is different? or argentina? I lived there for 30 years, and that was the same.
You mentioned swiss and austria, belgium and nederland... well, I didn´t live there, and I guess those are more tolerant countries, but, I insist, go to the top leagues in the soccer world, spain, england and italy, and tell me you don´t find racist people there. EVERY soccer fan in this world knows about those leagues, and we have incidents there every weekend, but you say we have to consider first the racists hosts at the euro? WHY?
(edited)
You mentioned swiss and austria, belgium and nederland... well, I didn´t live there, and I guess those are more tolerant countries, but, I insist, go to the top leagues in the soccer world, spain, england and italy, and tell me you don´t find racist people there. EVERY soccer fan in this world knows about those leagues, and we have incidents there every weekend, but you say we have to consider first the racists hosts at the euro? WHY?
(edited)
Wel we made that point earlier didnt why ? It's not about racist people (Because like you said racists are everywhere). But it how the are dealt with...
I go often to football matches in my country and when a few people try to start the "monkey insult" people inmdiatley boo them or tell them to shut the hell up.
And your right about Spain and most probebely Italy to but thats also worse ! They should be dealt with to .
And why I am talking about EURO ? Because if you wanna host an event like this you'd better make sure you can handle it...thats why I mentioned EURO 2000 t/m 2008 .
Why are these fans even allowed to the stand...I dont get it...
I go often to football matches in my country and when a few people try to start the "monkey insult" people inmdiatley boo them or tell them to shut the hell up.
And your right about Spain and most probebely Italy to but thats also worse ! They should be dealt with to .
And why I am talking about EURO ? Because if you wanna host an event like this you'd better make sure you can handle it...thats why I mentioned EURO 2000 t/m 2008 .
Why are these fans even allowed to the stand...I dont get it...
so, you suggest that the Euro shoudn´t be hosted in italy, france, england, spain, and many other eastern countries?
(edited)
(edited)
Nope youre wrong. The difference between a country like England and Poland is that the english FA is doing something about the racism, like giving bans, campagnes against racism , racism is being dealt with, and that doenst seem to be the case in like Poland.
Italy/france etc...the difference is that there is something done against instead of keeping an eye shut.
You see my point ?
You can easily google stuff these country's are doing the hold racism down.
http://www.evertonfc.com/club/life-ban-for-racist-football-fan.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-15782485
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-13606444
http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,1798795,00.html
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/sports/spanish-soccer-fans-chant-anti-semitic-slogans-at-israeli-goalkeeper-1.2138
Italy/france etc...the difference is that there is something done against instead of keeping an eye shut.
You see my point ?
You can easily google stuff these country's are doing the hold racism down.
http://www.evertonfc.com/club/life-ban-for-racist-football-fan.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-15782485
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-13606444
http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,1798795,00.html
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/sports/spanish-soccer-fans-chant-anti-semitic-slogans-at-israeli-goalkeeper-1.2138
Racism at Polish stadiums - an issue to be dealt with, not feared
4th June 2012
Euro 2012 co-hosts Poland and Ukraine were thrown under the media spotlight for all the wrong reasons last week following a BBC documentary on racism at soccer matches.
Footage filmed for the Panorama news program showed Polish soccer fans shouting anti-Semitic slogans at opposition players and fans, incidences of monkey calls aimed at black players and the use of Nazi and white-power imagery by hard-core hooligans from leading Polish clubs such as Widzew Łódź and Legia Warszawa.
In Ukraine, supporters were shown regularly using the Nazi salute at games, while the most disturbing footage showed Indian fans being attacked in the stands purely because of their skin color.
The scenes used in the film clearly spoke for themselves. Racism is alive and well in both Polish and Ukrainian soccer.
But what created the biggest furor was an interview with former England captain Sol Campbell, who, when asked his opinion about fans going to Euro 2012, declared “Stay at home, watch it on TV. Don’t risk it because you could end up coming back in a coffin.”
Mr Campbell’s comments, although sensationalist, were understandable given the fact he had just been shown racist imagery, chanting and violence at matches in both Euro 2012 co-host countries. The problem, however, is the negative effect the documentary and his comments have had on many UK citizens’ opinions of Poland.
Last week, newspaper comment sites were awash with fans outraged at UEFA for allowing a tournament to take place in a part of Europe which they now believe to be unsafe and a place where violence and racism is prevalent at every match and from all fans.
The truth however is far more complex than the picture painted by the BBC.
First, it is important to differentiate between Poland and Ukraine. They are not the same country, they have different rules, governments, societies and histories. It is natural to group them together as co-hosts, but by doing so the documentary continued to perpetuate the stereotype in the west that Central and Eastern Europe is all the same.
Changing times
As a fan I have been to watch numerous games at both Legia Warszawa and Polonia Warszawa’s stadiums and have only seen one incident of violence, which occurred when a drunken fan attacked the police before being arrested and escorted away.
Unfortunately, racist violence does occur at Polish matches. But over the five years I have lived in Poland, there has been a noticeable change in the atmosphere inside stadiums.
Polish soccer has begun the slow process of addressing its violent hooligan problem. All-seater stadiums, modern facilities, sufficient police numbers and tougher sentences (although still not tough enough) for perpetrators of crimes are all helping to begin to change Polish soccer for the better.
The filmmakers and many viewers also chose to overlook the importance of a point made by Jacek Purski, from the Never Again Foundation, an organization that monitors and attempts to combat racism among Polish fans. Mr Purski said, “Of course we hope to see a peaceful, non-racist Euro 2012, but still around league matches from time to time some incidents appear.”
Mr Purski was attempting to highlight the difference between international matches and league matches in terms of the likelihood of violence. Rivalry between fans is much friendlier and more good-natured at major international tournaments and as a result, the chance of violence occurring is significantly reduced.
The documentary, on the other hand, sent the message that the images shown were an accurate representation of Poland; that if you go there during Euro 2012, you should expect to see violent fans.
Addressing the issue
But while many in Poland feel the need to defend the country against the negative backlash, the filmmakers did make a vitally important point – anti-Semitism and other forms of racism are commonplace among hooligan groups at Polish domestic matches, a fact which the authorities currently seem more than happy to ignore.
In England, a country seen as the home of soccer hooliganism, both violence on the terraces and racist chanting, once commonplace in the 1970s and 1980s, are now rare. This is because the government, the police and the country’s soccer association took a zero-tolerance attitude against the perpetrators. Violent fans or fans using racist terms were arrested, prosecuted and banned from attending games. In turn, the stigma attached to standing up to those who professed racist views at games disappeared and it became socially unacceptable to attack players or fans merely because of their skin color.
Poland’s political leaders and its soccer association must do the same, instead of maintaining that the problem doesn’t exist. The image the BBC portrayed was a false one; nevertheless, racism and violence at Polish soccer matches must be eradicated once and for all.
From Warsaw Business Journal by David Ingham
4th June 2012
Euro 2012 co-hosts Poland and Ukraine were thrown under the media spotlight for all the wrong reasons last week following a BBC documentary on racism at soccer matches.
Footage filmed for the Panorama news program showed Polish soccer fans shouting anti-Semitic slogans at opposition players and fans, incidences of monkey calls aimed at black players and the use of Nazi and white-power imagery by hard-core hooligans from leading Polish clubs such as Widzew Łódź and Legia Warszawa.
In Ukraine, supporters were shown regularly using the Nazi salute at games, while the most disturbing footage showed Indian fans being attacked in the stands purely because of their skin color.
The scenes used in the film clearly spoke for themselves. Racism is alive and well in both Polish and Ukrainian soccer.
But what created the biggest furor was an interview with former England captain Sol Campbell, who, when asked his opinion about fans going to Euro 2012, declared “Stay at home, watch it on TV. Don’t risk it because you could end up coming back in a coffin.”
Mr Campbell’s comments, although sensationalist, were understandable given the fact he had just been shown racist imagery, chanting and violence at matches in both Euro 2012 co-host countries. The problem, however, is the negative effect the documentary and his comments have had on many UK citizens’ opinions of Poland.
Last week, newspaper comment sites were awash with fans outraged at UEFA for allowing a tournament to take place in a part of Europe which they now believe to be unsafe and a place where violence and racism is prevalent at every match and from all fans.
The truth however is far more complex than the picture painted by the BBC.
First, it is important to differentiate between Poland and Ukraine. They are not the same country, they have different rules, governments, societies and histories. It is natural to group them together as co-hosts, but by doing so the documentary continued to perpetuate the stereotype in the west that Central and Eastern Europe is all the same.
Changing times
As a fan I have been to watch numerous games at both Legia Warszawa and Polonia Warszawa’s stadiums and have only seen one incident of violence, which occurred when a drunken fan attacked the police before being arrested and escorted away.
Unfortunately, racist violence does occur at Polish matches. But over the five years I have lived in Poland, there has been a noticeable change in the atmosphere inside stadiums.
Polish soccer has begun the slow process of addressing its violent hooligan problem. All-seater stadiums, modern facilities, sufficient police numbers and tougher sentences (although still not tough enough) for perpetrators of crimes are all helping to begin to change Polish soccer for the better.
The filmmakers and many viewers also chose to overlook the importance of a point made by Jacek Purski, from the Never Again Foundation, an organization that monitors and attempts to combat racism among Polish fans. Mr Purski said, “Of course we hope to see a peaceful, non-racist Euro 2012, but still around league matches from time to time some incidents appear.”
Mr Purski was attempting to highlight the difference between international matches and league matches in terms of the likelihood of violence. Rivalry between fans is much friendlier and more good-natured at major international tournaments and as a result, the chance of violence occurring is significantly reduced.
The documentary, on the other hand, sent the message that the images shown were an accurate representation of Poland; that if you go there during Euro 2012, you should expect to see violent fans.
Addressing the issue
But while many in Poland feel the need to defend the country against the negative backlash, the filmmakers did make a vitally important point – anti-Semitism and other forms of racism are commonplace among hooligan groups at Polish domestic matches, a fact which the authorities currently seem more than happy to ignore.
In England, a country seen as the home of soccer hooliganism, both violence on the terraces and racist chanting, once commonplace in the 1970s and 1980s, are now rare. This is because the government, the police and the country’s soccer association took a zero-tolerance attitude against the perpetrators. Violent fans or fans using racist terms were arrested, prosecuted and banned from attending games. In turn, the stigma attached to standing up to those who professed racist views at games disappeared and it became socially unacceptable to attack players or fans merely because of their skin color.
Poland’s political leaders and its soccer association must do the same, instead of maintaining that the problem doesn’t exist. The image the BBC portrayed was a false one; nevertheless, racism and violence at Polish soccer matches must be eradicated once and for all.
From Warsaw Business Journal by David Ingham
Here is the news article in English :)
Euro 2012: Holland players subjected to racist abuse at training session
Euro 2012: Holland players subjected to racist abuse at training session
I go often to football matches in my country and when a few people try to start the "monkey insult" people inmdiatley boo them or tell them to shut the hell up.
I still often hear this song in Galgenwaard (FC Utrecht stadium) ;)
I still often hear this song in Galgenwaard (FC Utrecht stadium) ;)
Wasn't that small if the article is right .....
Besides, no need to defend hooligan behaviour in Poland, I know it well enough :S Many fans of my club, FC Utrecht, hate ajax, I don't. I don't like them, but not hate them. On the other hand, I absolutely shit on ado .... and LEGIA! Why? Here it is:
(edited)
Besides, no need to defend hooligan behaviour in Poland, I know it well enough :S Many fans of my club, FC Utrecht, hate ajax, I don't. I don't like them, but not hate them. On the other hand, I absolutely shit on ado .... and LEGIA! Why? Here it is:
(edited)
Well, I read that all by all, it was not that bad and that marshals took care of it. It also seems that a part of that group was protesting because Krakow is no hosting city.
What do you mean by "not that bad" ? Monkey sounds were made...