Subpage under development, new version coming soon!
Subject: Ready for the most racist tournament ever?
the fact that he got suspended doesn't change the fact that he was racist
It doesn't matter if he's racist. The point that Schepel is trying to make (I think) is that in Western Europe, racism and homophobia are less tolerated. (And again, I didn't pick sides here!)
It doesn't matter if he's racist. The point that Schepel is trying to make (I think) is that in Western Europe, racism and homophobia are less tolerated. (And again, I didn't pick sides here!)
I don't think so.
Whether or not people feel safe doesn't change a thing about the very obvious and incredibly widespread racism, homophobia and nazism.
Sorry, but I see no point in discussing things with someone who writes such stupid things, it's simply pointless...don't you think so?
Whether or not people feel safe doesn't change a thing about the very obvious and incredibly widespread racism, homophobia and nazism.
Sorry, but I see no point in discussing things with someone who writes such stupid things, it's simply pointless...don't you think so?
I'm not denying some things you say ;-)
(edited)
(edited)
the fact that he got suspended doesn't change the fact that he was racist
Actually his chants were considered anti-semetic, not racist. (Still wrong, and he was rightfully suspended.)
Further more I do not think that all Poles are racist or anti-semetic, and I do know that government tries to deal with this.
However I do believe that among Polish footbal supporters and hooligans the amount of organized racists/anti semetics/neonazies are higher then average. (Read carefully: I'm not saying every supporter is racist!). This is also what is pointed out in the documentary..
That is a difference with the Netherlands, where extreme political movements never managed to get a real foothold within the football fans or even hooligans.
And yes, there are racists among English supporters as well, but there is zero tolerance with the clubs and FA on racist chants in the stands.
You are right, we should not simply judge based on this documentary.
So please educate us, what measures or fines do the clubs and the Polish FA take against the actual troublemakers shown in the video?
(edited)
Actually his chants were considered anti-semetic, not racist. (Still wrong, and he was rightfully suspended.)
Further more I do not think that all Poles are racist or anti-semetic, and I do know that government tries to deal with this.
However I do believe that among Polish footbal supporters and hooligans the amount of organized racists/anti semetics/neonazies are higher then average. (Read carefully: I'm not saying every supporter is racist!). This is also what is pointed out in the documentary..
That is a difference with the Netherlands, where extreme political movements never managed to get a real foothold within the football fans or even hooligans.
And yes, there are racists among English supporters as well, but there is zero tolerance with the clubs and FA on racist chants in the stands.
You are right, we should not simply judge based on this documentary.
So please educate us, what measures or fines do the clubs and the Polish FA take against the actual troublemakers shown in the video?
(edited)
I'll give you one better: Eastern Europe is my focus point for research. Whether or not racism is a problem elsewhere doesn't change a damn thing about the truth in Poland and Ukrain. The stuff you saw in the documentary is bad. You can't deny it happens. The main thing however, is this: no one could be bothered to do anything to stop it. I can guarantee you that similar stuff in any Western country would result in immediate action. Mass Hitler salutes? End of the game, there and then. The club would be in serious trouble and the people saluting would have some explaining to do - in court. In Poland or the Ukrain? No one raises an eyebrow. Try to find out how many racist incidents ended up in court. Have a look at a bit of scientific research on this subject. Include homophobia and nazism as well. Don't tell me it's not a problem.
Exactly, whenever something happens in Holland/England , inmediatley action is taking.
You can't really say that to the cops watching a Heil Hitler by many people and just close there eyes.
You can't really say that to the cops watching a Heil Hitler by many people and just close there eyes.
Try to find out how many racist incidents ended up in court.
This has nothing to do with court imo. Those people should not be brought to court. Those people (Hitler-salutes) should be banned from football matches. That's what the Polish FA can and should do.
That you want to bring those people to court, is a totally different discussion, as that has nothing to do with football anymore.
This has nothing to do with court imo. Those people should not be brought to court. Those people (Hitler-salutes) should be banned from football matches. That's what the Polish FA can and should do.
That you want to bring those people to court, is a totally different discussion, as that has nothing to do with football anymore.
Dont matter which way you wanna take it, court or banning people, the problem is that this "little minority" isnt taken care of!
Sorry, but I can't stop laughing. Try watching Livorno or Lazio home games, it should astonish you quite a bit.
There are celtic crosses and swastikas in Spain very, very often - haven't seen any game suspended because of it.
I understand that when Feyenoord 'supporters' sing this "Hamas Hamas Jude aan gaas" the game is stopped, yes?
No? Oh...
There are celtic crosses and swastikas in Spain very, very often - haven't seen any game suspended because of it.
I understand that when Feyenoord 'supporters' sing this "Hamas Hamas Jude aan gaas" the game is stopped, yes?
No? Oh...
I understand that when Feyenoord 'supporters' sing this "Hamas Hamas Jude aan gaas" the game is stopped, yes?
No? Oh...
It is actually.
No? Oh...
It is actually.
I understand that when Feyenoord 'supporters' sing this "Hamas Hamas Jude aan gaas" the game is stopped, yes?
It will be when it is repeated for a longer time by a substantial group.
Also Feyenoord has given bans to supporters who where chanting this, and will continue to do so. Further more, partially due to these types of chants, when Ajax and Feyenoord play each other, away fans are not allowed to attend.
Do Polish clubs or the Polish FA take any action?
It will be when it is repeated for a longer time by a substantial group.
Also Feyenoord has given bans to supporters who where chanting this, and will continue to do so. Further more, partially due to these types of chants, when Ajax and Feyenoord play each other, away fans are not allowed to attend.
Do Polish clubs or the Polish FA take any action?
Ofcourse not, because there is nothing they can do :D Rather cloe your eyes and pretend everything is alright, eastern europe style:p
lol, good one - one word anwser to the panorama: "Terry"
I think its nonsense stigmatising Polish and Ukrainian football fans in that way, 2 weeks before the kick off, it only fuels the problem and is done only for bigger revenue advertising reasons of the program, which is morally as wrong - as the racism in my opinion (maybe a bit less).
There is a big problem in these communities, that is true, as there are in all communities. (Anyone heard of Terry's "racism" or the S.S.Lazio fans?)
But in my view its not the problem of racism, its lack of education/stupidity and using anything to provoke a reaction from anyone, not as a actual form of racism. Its a bit like laws for "hate crime" in the USA, it has nothing to do with objective approach for good or equality. It's an unbalanced negative portrail - which in being negative, gives opposite effects. Stigmatising the whole BBC is also extremely stupid on the other end of the spectrum.
How can anyone possibly believe a program which can't differ between Austria and Czech rep :-o, or the Polish flag (without the coat of arms) and the Polish Navy flag (with the coat of arms) :-], both fatal errors on the map in the film, if they can't get the simplest facts right... why should anyone believe anything else? I also love the example they give in Poland... "incident of a racist flag" in Rzeszów (small town) that happen 2 years ago... lol... in which action has been taken, come there is more racism than that... ;-p
(edited)
I think its nonsense stigmatising Polish and Ukrainian football fans in that way, 2 weeks before the kick off, it only fuels the problem and is done only for bigger revenue advertising reasons of the program, which is morally as wrong - as the racism in my opinion (maybe a bit less).
There is a big problem in these communities, that is true, as there are in all communities. (Anyone heard of Terry's "racism" or the S.S.Lazio fans?)
But in my view its not the problem of racism, its lack of education/stupidity and using anything to provoke a reaction from anyone, not as a actual form of racism. Its a bit like laws for "hate crime" in the USA, it has nothing to do with objective approach for good or equality. It's an unbalanced negative portrail - which in being negative, gives opposite effects. Stigmatising the whole BBC is also extremely stupid on the other end of the spectrum.
How can anyone possibly believe a program which can't differ between Austria and Czech rep :-o, or the Polish flag (without the coat of arms) and the Polish Navy flag (with the coat of arms) :-], both fatal errors on the map in the film, if they can't get the simplest facts right... why should anyone believe anything else? I also love the example they give in Poland... "incident of a racist flag" in Rzeszów (small town) that happen 2 years ago... lol... in which action has been taken, come there is more racism than that... ;-p
(edited)