Subject: Ready for the most racist tournament ever?

Of course there is racism, and it is a big problem, everywere in Italy, England, Spain... everywere - no one is denying that.
Of course this kind of behaviour doesn't lead anywere good and unfortunately as stability is falling in the world, these idiots grow in numbers, but its still a minority also in Poland or Ukraine, and it is being dealt with by all governaments, according to their (often financial, currently declining) power.

My piont was that lack of education (money for it) was the cause behind this stupidity, which leads to actual racism - racism which does happen - by not nearly as often, as this crap movie states.
Zeig Heil saluting in every Ukrainian game... come on, its made up on the spot, they do even bother with the actual numbers, they just say what suits their propagandist agenda.
I fact this movie is 100% racist towards Polish and Ukrainian football fans (whom of the BIG majority is innosent - what about them?), this movie is distorting objective(or as close it can get to) reality.

And usually when you don't know what something is about, its about money, its only natural that in poorer countries *an the further east you go in europe - the poorer they get, governaments will have less financial power to battle this issiue, as for this program, is not journalism, its just propaganda that doesn't do any good, and only fuels the problem... of division, when un-truthfull arguments are used for serious matter.

Its the same as if al jazzera or some important for example Chinese boradcaster made a movie with the agenda for not going to London for the olympics... beacuse of, lets say... violence, (or racism, makes no difference) and showing 3 times the same sceen of the london riots from last summer, anyone with any sense - can see its nonsense, i my view. Getting worked up about it only makes it "see more light" in the minds of people with no pre conceptions on these subjects.
Like "all Ukrainian football fans are racist" are thery really?
(edited)

Like Che's communism. Without violence. Oh wait. Che was a mass murderer.

Ermmm......Che WAS a Stalinist, in case you weren't aware.

Communism is too broad of a movement to characterize it simply as mass murderers.

Che WAS a Stalinist, in case you weren't aware.

In the eyes of young, naive leftists, he isn't. But indeed, he was ;-)

Communism is too broad of a movement to characterize it simply as mass murderers.

That's why I always watch the practical outcome of it. And then I can say they are mass murderers ;-)

I can agree,
My post was only pointed in advising everyone that we are talking about a very big historical mechanism.
And moreover that is useless to watch at.. as it is only a football fans problem!

This argument seems to be a bit over-expanded.
First of all, the film was a complete rubbish, people shouldn't make any coclusions by watching this.
Second, both sides are looking for mistakes in what someone has said and it seems to be a wrong angle in this problem. Both are trying to prove their point, not look at it absolutely realistically...

Of course it isn't right, what is happening, but is the problem really racism? For example the jihad banner:

1) People did it to anger the opponent so their team could win.
2) People did it because they were a punch of jerks and tought it was funny.
3) They were racist.

I think first 2 are more likely than the 3rd one. So the problem is more lack of respect than racism. It doesn't make things, what are done, right but I'm pretty sure that they aren't racist, so it is wrong to blame them for that. For example when Suarez insulted Evra 'negredo' Suarez got a long ban. When Messi did the same thing to Drenthe no measures was taken. In both situations it was angering the opponent not racism. Spain didn't too anything, and I'm almost certain that most of you wouldn't ban Messi if you would have a chance.

Anyway I'm pretty sure, that both Poles and Ukrainians care about football really much and do everything they can, to conduct a great tournament. Its just a week from EC, so we see who is right. Until then you all shouldn't blame anyone for things, that aren't done yet.

So the problem is more lack of respect than racism.

And for such lack of respect, they should be banned from the stadiums. What's the difference? Point is the Polish FA doesn't seem to handle this very well.

I'm not saying that is right, I only pointed out that your blaming Poles for the wrong thing.
I think that the problem doesn't exist in such way the film introduced it. This film was rubbish and actually the problem isn't much bigger, than in any other country.

I only pointed out that your blaming Poles for the wrong thing.

I'm not blaming any Pole here, I'm blaming Polish FA.

I think most people in this topic miss the point that is being made in the documentary.
The point being made is that racist (or other anti social) behaviour occuring at football matches in Poland and Ukraine is semingly accepted by the clubs and national FA's, as they fail to act upon it in public.
It also points out that in Ukraine part of the hooligans are putting their words into action and act violent towards "non white" people.
Furthermore the documentary points out that the police in Kirkov simply denies there are racist incidents.

The documentary does not state that all Polish or Ukraine football fans are all racist. It actually states that most Polish people are tolerant to other religions and cultures, but that in football extreme right views are more common compared to the rest of society.

And it is also important to understand that this is a documentary from England, and why in England they find this very disturbing.
It is simply because the situation looks very similar to English Football in the 70's and early 80's.
At that time Violence and Racism were also a problem in English Football. The difference with the situation in Poland and Ukraine is that the FA and Government eventually acted upon it and that this resulted in this behaviour no longer being tolerated and almost dissapeared from the stands.
If today you would repeatedly shout racist abuse and stewards or police officers hear you doing this, they would remove you from the stand, and you will be fined and banned from the stadium.
That type of action is what the English feel is missing from the Polish and Ukraine Clubs, FA and government. And due to these actions missing, there is no protection to the people on the receiving end of this abuse and violence.

The appeal Soul Campbell makes is actually not because there are racist in Poland and Ukraine (they are everywhere) but he is worried because there is no protection from Police or other people if these incidents occure.
Let's not forget that England actually plays Ukraine, so that means there is already a rivalry between the supporters.
If there seems to be no protection inside the stadium, it is also unlikely there is protection outside it.....
(edited)

That's why I always watch the practical outcome of it. And then I can say they are mass murderers ;-) That makes us all mass murderers! Yay!

I don't know what kind of logic you use, but it doesn't seem a valid one ;-)

Exactly.

Also, using racist chants and/or symbolism to anger the opponent doesn't make it something else. It's still racism. However, the real problem here is not the racism itself, however bad, but the acceptance of it. It's sickening to see how it's defended in this topic. There is no situation where racism is acceptable. Even if you don't really mean to be racist. It's like kicking someone in the balls on purpose and then say you didn't mean to hurt anyone.

There are also loads of people being killed as a consequence of capitalism.

Dear mother of god...I am just reading what are people writing and believe in what BBC says and other crap! No wonder this world is going to *hit! Yes and USA are peacekeepers and are not fighting for Oil just for peace,hahahaha! I mean guys pls...How about Italy and Lazio and their fans?

UK and USA the peacekeepers!!! Oh yes and Yugoslavia still exists! ROFL!
(edited)

Try to stay on topic.

---