Subject: European Union

Well, those sorts of political decisions is easy, it's worse when the forcing conserns economical, agricultural, or even foreign policy. That's when the trouble really begin. What's good economical politics in the brilliant French (or whichever EU-nation has the best economy, not really sure) economy can be shitty politics in worse economies, like Germany or the 10 new nations.
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I support all democratic European countries to be members of EU. Turkey isnt European and their democracy is also only developing. I am not againist muslim states - if Bosnia want.

I want Romania and Bulgaria to be EU members how quickly is possible.

After all european countries which want be members will be in EU, we may starting transforming. It took many years to Marocco, Turkey and others to be prepared be in EAAU:)

Well, Norway has made it clear through two referendums that they don't want to be members, Iceland has also made it quite clear. That leaves us with Switzerland (who probably won't join anything), the entire region of Balcan (except Slovenia), Romania, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Moldova, Lithuania and Belarus. Turkey and Russia has the vast majority of territory in Asia, so they are dubious. So are Moldova (poorest country in Europe) and Belarus (dictatorship).

Not any obvious candidates yet, except Romania and maybe Croatia and Bulgaria.

... Do not be stupid. Terrorists are simply waiting for this moment. Do not let them get in. But it's not about the terrorists actually....

Hey dude, what are you tring to say? Terrorism and Turkey??? I think you've already made the only stupid statement in this topic. You don't have to like Turks or Turkey, but you have far exceeded the line. Yes, I'm waiting for your reply. Why terrorist are waiting for Turkey to join EU, and what terrorists and why???

obviously the 3,6k million of people from Asia are terrorist... didn´t know? :'( (kidding)

On the other hand... Spain had to do a lot of efforts to increase his economy to enter, a lot of hospitals, a lot of schools saw how they become more poor only to invert these money in our economy and to get the minimum requeriments to join EU. If these countries enter the EU economy will decrease and EU will be weaker.

This is the fastest reason... the most important one is that I´m not sure than nowadays Türkey has the minimum rights for allbody, something I think it´s very important. I don´t want a country in EU who has differences between women and men in the laws, as I think it works in some parts (not all) of Türkey.

Please, read me: I don´t hate Türkey or Turks, not-at-all; but I think they should improve rights, economy and laws before join EU.
I´m not sure about the "laws and rights" words I wrote, it´s only what I think with the information I had from my country, I never visited Turkey. I will be granted to know better if this is exactly or if I´m absolutly wrong and I´ll change my opinion if I should. I know it´s very different what media say about a country than the truth.
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I do not think that these discussions are mainly related to current situation of Turkey. There are already strict biases against Turkey and Turks, either rising from the previous movement of Turkish migration to Europe (esp. to Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Holland,…) or from the East European history. I am already familiar with that many people do not even have an idea about Turkey, yet they tend to attribute some specific traits to Turks and Turkey. Just to name a few, %99 of Turkish population’s religion is Islam, but it is quite different from the Arabic and other Islamic nations. In fact Turkey is unique in that aspect. Of course there are a few radical freaks, but it’s same as in other countries. And about women rights, Turkey was among the first countries that gave political and economical rights to women throughout history. In 1920s, the first Turkish government removed the discrimination. About laws and rights, Turkey is located in a strategic and hard region. Throughout history, this region is very prone to wars. Because of this, Turkey has a greater emphasis on military than many other nations, how else we may fight against terrorists that has killed over 30,000 citizens just for the last 20 years. I’m especially angry for calling a nation terrorist that is actively fighting with terrorists. And Turkey may not be a Scandinavian democracy:) but she is at least as democratic as Italy, Greece, Spain and many EU countries. Because of historical biases, xenophobic/racist accusations, Turkey is viewed as a police government that civilians have no right and freedom. But in fact, the things work quite different here. The problem is that we have made too many sacrifices and EU did none. Personally I and a great majority of Turkish people believe that even we prove Turkey should be sufficient enough to be a part. of EU, yet EU will not confirm the full membership. They will neither allow nor turn back on Turkey. So, except politics and a few government officials, none cares much about EU membership. If we solve our problems (in fact after 90s, many of the Turks view Greece as a friendly nation, that is never known in many EU countries, we almost got rid of separatist terrorists, economy improved much since last few years, so on) by own, then why we need EU?

Entering EU is an opportunity to develop a country's economy more rapidly since much is done to facilitate trade. I think it would also help much with Turkey's reputation for EU citizens.
Anyway, being reluctant to enter such an organization is more than understandable.
But if you use a broader view, it is also an opportunity to show that christian/muslim based cultures are not incompatible, which is one of the principles of EU and would be quite an example for stupid George and his objective allies religious extremists (who are not only muslims, and do not wait in Turkey to invade the EU).

If I remember well, the great differences between EU wills and Turkey reality are focused on justice and recognition of the massive kills in Armenia. dtranquillity, could you please tell us how this latter issue is perceived in Turkey?

Edit: I personnally am in favour of integrating Turkey in EU, providing that the views on different topics are closer than they are now. An issue to be raised would then be: where to stop? I've studied this topic in high school, and many serious guys were in favour of integrating all mediteranean countries and may be even Russia. In addition, integrating Turkey would require to change the way the EU functions today, otherwise Turkey would be the nation with the more voting rights in the EU, because of its important population. This could be a great opportunity to rethink EU structure in a way that would represent less individual interests.
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You were waiting for my answer so you have it now:

I've got nothing against Turkey and Turkish at all but maybe we should wait? EU is growing bigger and bigger and I cannot see the end. If EU takes Turkey now, many other countries will want it but they won't deserve it. (The greatest example is Poland, even I don't know what we are doing in EU ;D)

As far as terrorism is concerned:
Turkey would be the marina for terrorists. If they somehow get in it's tantamount to their being in Poland, France, UK...
I may be wrong but you've got to admit that Turkey is a very different country than present members. I hope that it will change, because I would like Turkey in EU but simply not now. For many people Turkey is still wild country. I know that it may sound odd but that's what they say. (It's not my opinion) So if Turkey wants to be a member it should:

1. still develop its economics
2. stabilize its still wavering democracy
3. try to change people's opinions and views

Nevertheless I think that we (EU and Turkey) should start closer cooperation
even now. But I would defer with Turkey's fastest joining in. More haste less speed.

(I see that you wrote a lot :D don't want even to compete with you :D)

ed: some spelling mistakes ;p
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I don't want to get out of topic, so I've just send a SK-mail to you:) About integration of Turkey, as I stated, it will never happen in upcoming 10-20 years. And your arguments are exactly right but, they are the problems themselves. We have a different religion, culture, and totally eastern; but who can insist on that being western, christian and ... is superior to the values we have? Turkey has a young and fast growing population. If education programme and economical situation will improve as steadily as today, then we need not an older EU to join. In fact today, I doubt the power of EU, compared to those of US and even China.

Still, I did not understand why Turkey is a wild country? Do you think terrorist are spinning around streets with AK-47s? Or do you think Turkish state is supporting the terrorists? Then why do over 30 thousand had died???

I didn't say that... But Turkey has borders with Iraq, Syria. It may be dangerous. Of course I think that Turkey should join but not now. Yet, we cannot wall off from Turkey.

On an international level, I think integrating Turkey would be a valuable asset for EU, because of the differences in culture. This would be the first "free-trade" area incorporating both christian and muslim cultures, and would help EU to develop relationships with "muslim countries" much more easily. In my opinion, this is an opportunity to be more powerful than US and China in the future decades. Especially, Turkey has a young and fast growing population, with a quick developing economy which would be pretty interesting for the EU, which is backwards the above mentionned countries (from an economic and population growth point of view).
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I agree. That's why I want Turkey in UE but not now. We both have time...

Please do not be preconceived to Turkey. Turkey is not a "wild" country. Come and see if Turkey is "wild" or not.

East of Turkey is very wild, i heard...

At east there are terrorists. And we are fighting against them. That is why we are not also a terrorist supporter country.