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Subject: Supporters Mood Dropping...
It's not being punished for playing young players, just making it more challenging, Ask Arsene Wenger about that :)
As for the friendly point- friendlies mean something to the supporters in Sokker, always have and always will I guess. I understand it's tough when you're playing with such a young team but if you think about it in the long term you may lose the occasional fan level but in the long term you'll do very well out of the players you're training.
As for the friendly point- friendlies mean something to the supporters in Sokker, always have and always will I guess. I understand it's tough when you're playing with such a young team but if you think about it in the long term you may lose the occasional fan level but in the long term you'll do very well out of the players you're training.
so how much free plus did greg give you to say all this haha
I think that the rating & strength of the teams in the match should be taken into account.
Sokker was always about tactics – not just about fielding better players
If you manage to get a good result with a weaker team, that should be valued from your fans.
If your team is weaker, but you have more possession of the ball, more chances and are more in the half of the opponent - that should be valued…
That´s what I would call intelligent supporters
Sokker was always about tactics – not just about fielding better players
If you manage to get a good result with a weaker team, that should be valued from your fans.
If your team is weaker, but you have more possession of the ball, more chances and are more in the half of the opponent - that should be valued…
That´s what I would call intelligent supporters
Haha, supporters' mood is to the economy what form is to the players' performance : it is stupid, not controlable and it ruins everything !
That would be great alright and maybe the devs will look at this as the next step. The point you seem to have missed is that this new mood calculator is a lot closer to your ideal than the old system...
I won 5-4, and sups mood dropped back to 2/7. CONGRATULATIONS.
Also for match engine! Although it showed equal shots, I had nearly double as much, and opponents goal were insane.
This system sucks hard. Getting started to hate the whole game, consider loosing a plus member...
Also for match engine! Although it showed equal shots, I had nearly double as much, and opponents goal were insane.
This system sucks hard. Getting started to hate the whole game, consider loosing a plus member...
Your opponent is three divisions below you and you won your countries top division last year... Would it be better in the old system where you would have got a supporter boost and your weaker opponent would have lost some supporter mood. That way you could keep a stranglehold on your top position with your invincible supporter mood and no new teams would ever have a chance to catch up with you ^^
Okay. Then, when I will be kicked out of cup, I want exactly the same treatment, if I face a stronger team in some way! (Ranking points, or top league leader)
If I would have knew about this will be implemented, I would have kept my team for +200 sups this season, and top 3 place in the league... Now I have to balance between training and cup, with my B squad, against (okay, 3 div lower teams, but with 13 player (??)
It was 3-0 already in the 15 min, there should have been no doubt about I am going to win the game. Would it be better then training 3 atts and no B team? Hell yeah, and everyone would loose with 5-8 goals, instead of confident, accurate, predictable, although seemingly risky games. Seriously, this implementation gives me the decision:
If I loose woth B squad against a 13 playered 3 level lower(but check his stats, he scored 30 others: 1)opponent, who should be 1 league higher, then I guess my mood would drop 3-4 at least. If I loose same quality B squad top leage opponent?
The biggest question for managers in position like me is: training/cup/quitting.
I am the one, who declares the game style, the result and most of the other teams has to conform themselves to my tactic. Why shouldn't I benefit from my basically good, effective and mostly continually planned decesions? I am pretty sure that I have all of these, as otherwise I could not have skipped the gap between the older teams with many season benefits. This all sounds like selfish style, but seriously, sokker is so simple to understand after a point, and since I get it, and some others don't... Why remove my advantages? I worked for it, considered, calculated, and established my ideas and team structure. Now I am getting 15%lower sponsorship money, and 0/week supporter, for standing in the cup, and being 2nd-3rd, with 2/7 mood. Then what should other teams feel except the leader? And if I face somebody, hence focusing the cup, and get beaten, do I loose all my support? Sounds cool, really, and fair for sure.
The thing what I am telling to you: I loose money with standing the cup with low winnings, because of sponsor money and mood(and no new sups). If I win high, I loose much more on training, as my youngsters are blasters, and if I will be out, I will loose anything from sups. My development of weekly income will be totally lost, training is no longer effective, so nice try, to stop me reaching Poland top team's quality, even if I am a good manager.
That's all this about.
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If I would have knew about this will be implemented, I would have kept my team for +200 sups this season, and top 3 place in the league... Now I have to balance between training and cup, with my B squad, against (okay, 3 div lower teams, but with 13 player (??)
It was 3-0 already in the 15 min, there should have been no doubt about I am going to win the game. Would it be better then training 3 atts and no B team? Hell yeah, and everyone would loose with 5-8 goals, instead of confident, accurate, predictable, although seemingly risky games. Seriously, this implementation gives me the decision:
If I loose woth B squad against a 13 playered 3 level lower(but check his stats, he scored 30 others: 1)opponent, who should be 1 league higher, then I guess my mood would drop 3-4 at least. If I loose same quality B squad top leage opponent?
The biggest question for managers in position like me is: training/cup/quitting.
I am the one, who declares the game style, the result and most of the other teams has to conform themselves to my tactic. Why shouldn't I benefit from my basically good, effective and mostly continually planned decesions? I am pretty sure that I have all of these, as otherwise I could not have skipped the gap between the older teams with many season benefits. This all sounds like selfish style, but seriously, sokker is so simple to understand after a point, and since I get it, and some others don't... Why remove my advantages? I worked for it, considered, calculated, and established my ideas and team structure. Now I am getting 15%lower sponsorship money, and 0/week supporter, for standing in the cup, and being 2nd-3rd, with 2/7 mood. Then what should other teams feel except the leader? And if I face somebody, hence focusing the cup, and get beaten, do I loose all my support? Sounds cool, really, and fair for sure.
The thing what I am telling to you: I loose money with standing the cup with low winnings, because of sponsor money and mood(and no new sups). If I win high, I loose much more on training, as my youngsters are blasters, and if I will be out, I will loose anything from sups. My development of weekly income will be totally lost, training is no longer effective, so nice try, to stop me reaching Poland top team's quality, even if I am a good manager.
That's all this about.
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"Would it be better in the old system where you would have got a supporter boost and your weaker opponent would have lost some supporter mood. "
i agree with the concept of this change trying to fix what you stated above, its a good change for the weaker teams in a hopeless position. but the main reason people are upset is losing mood on a victory. im fine with not gaining mood by beating a weaker team, because it is expected, but losing mood on a win is just crazy talk
ive read most of this topic, and i have not been convinced by any arguement by the mausers and shanes out there justifying a mood loss for a win
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i agree with the concept of this change trying to fix what you stated above, its a good change for the weaker teams in a hopeless position. but the main reason people are upset is losing mood on a victory. im fine with not gaining mood by beating a weaker team, because it is expected, but losing mood on a win is just crazy talk
ive read most of this topic, and i have not been convinced by any arguement by the mausers and shanes out there justifying a mood loss for a win
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i was kicked off the cup this day, with a stronger team (the best team on the country), i loss only 2-0 and my fans dropped two levels... :(
when I win the mood never goes up :( ...
I agree that would it be better the old system...
when I win the mood never goes up :( ...
I agree that would it be better the old system...
There is not a proliferation of teams losing fan mood after narrow wins. It's just when teams near the very top of their countries top league just beat a team 2 or 3 divisions below them. Obviously the ratio of respective team strength is huge in these cases, hence the fan mood loss even after a win.
This also happens in real life- If a team like Liverpool or Real Madrid narrowly win in the cup and even the league vs a much weaker team their fans are unhappy.
This also happens in real life- If a team like Liverpool or Real Madrid narrowly win in the cup and even the league vs a much weaker team their fans are unhappy.
Agree with that. When a very big team plays a very small team.
Should be little or no gain for the big team winning and little or no loss if the small team looses. Obviously if the small team wins that would be a mood increase for them and a mood decrease for the big team.
@shaneteam, to give you a scale. The mood swing of 5 levels cost me approx €275k in revenue for the week in lost sponsership and lost tickets. Thats based on a crowd of 45k as opposed to the 15k I got. My capacity is 64k, but I think this would only fill in very good circumstances for both teams.
Its a lot of money, yeah ok I can afford it short term. But long term Id have to reduce my wage bill or go bankrupt pretty soon if i had low bank funds. If I worked offshore and was off for 3 or 4 weeks. It would be impossible for me to fix in time.
This could cause big teams to turn into small teams within a season. Is this whats wanted?
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Should be little or no gain for the big team winning and little or no loss if the small team looses. Obviously if the small team wins that would be a mood increase for them and a mood decrease for the big team.
@shaneteam, to give you a scale. The mood swing of 5 levels cost me approx €275k in revenue for the week in lost sponsership and lost tickets. Thats based on a crowd of 45k as opposed to the 15k I got. My capacity is 64k, but I think this would only fill in very good circumstances for both teams.
Its a lot of money, yeah ok I can afford it short term. But long term Id have to reduce my wage bill or go bankrupt pretty soon if i had low bank funds. If I worked offshore and was off for 3 or 4 weeks. It would be impossible for me to fix in time.
This could cause big teams to turn into small teams within a season. Is this whats wanted?
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"Scoring in Sokker doesn't translate to real life as you know."
Then why do you give RL justifications such as: 'it's normal because you played with a team 3 leagues lower than yours'... ?
"I lost a level after winning 16-0 because of the huge gulf in class in cup 1st round matches."
I wouldn't mind having supporter mood dropping after such game but the problem is that there is a strict relationship between mood and number of fans and sponsors. Where in the world have you ever seen fans leaving in numbers (15-20 in one week) after you winning 10-0 or even 16-0 ???
There should be some realistic behaviour. Otherwise don't pretend it's an online football manager game, pretend it's another sport with other rules...
"Like Greg has said the majority of games work out fine but no system will be able to encompass that and the huge mismatches you occasionally get. "
Again, I completely disagree. From the fuzz you can see about this change, it impacts a lot more than those 0.5% he mentions... unless he considers the 2500 bot-teams in a D6 of a normal country part of his statistics...
"Let's also not forget that this works in both directions- was it really fair for a new player to lose huge fan mood after coming up against a big team in the first round of the cup? To say this new system is unfair is also a fallacy; all big teams are affected equally by this so it's still a level playing field. "
No it is not fair for a new player to loose fan mood after loosing against a big team, but the opposite is even "unfairer".
"All it's stopped is teams (like me) being unstoppable once they reach the top as their fan mood never used to drop."
Again, you don't seem to get the point: it affects a lot more teams than you think and it has a huge financial consequence because it is connected to fans leaving after a mood drop. It is unfair to introduce such financial loss in between two seasons when staff & players hiring strategies have been built during many many years...
What should they do now? Fire their players and coaches?
Then why do you give RL justifications such as: 'it's normal because you played with a team 3 leagues lower than yours'... ?
"I lost a level after winning 16-0 because of the huge gulf in class in cup 1st round matches."
I wouldn't mind having supporter mood dropping after such game but the problem is that there is a strict relationship between mood and number of fans and sponsors. Where in the world have you ever seen fans leaving in numbers (15-20 in one week) after you winning 10-0 or even 16-0 ???
There should be some realistic behaviour. Otherwise don't pretend it's an online football manager game, pretend it's another sport with other rules...
"Like Greg has said the majority of games work out fine but no system will be able to encompass that and the huge mismatches you occasionally get. "
Again, I completely disagree. From the fuzz you can see about this change, it impacts a lot more than those 0.5% he mentions... unless he considers the 2500 bot-teams in a D6 of a normal country part of his statistics...
"Let's also not forget that this works in both directions- was it really fair for a new player to lose huge fan mood after coming up against a big team in the first round of the cup? To say this new system is unfair is also a fallacy; all big teams are affected equally by this so it's still a level playing field. "
No it is not fair for a new player to loose fan mood after loosing against a big team, but the opposite is even "unfairer".
"All it's stopped is teams (like me) being unstoppable once they reach the top as their fan mood never used to drop."
Again, you don't seem to get the point: it affects a lot more teams than you think and it has a huge financial consequence because it is connected to fans leaving after a mood drop. It is unfair to introduce such financial loss in between two seasons when staff & players hiring strategies have been built during many many years...
What should they do now? Fire their players and coaches?
Too much intelligence in that post for the blinkered fanboiys of the change, nice post though.
Shaneteam you have tried all through this thread to use whatever criteria fits your opinion to rip those complaining apart but at least it's keeping the topic active.
Your retort against Anaconda was especially pointless seeing that some other guy had posted about mail swapped with Greg that said that friendlies are not really affected and Anaconda's result was in a friendly, the fact that he actually had an inferior team based on ratings but still managed to scrape a draw made your post even worse.
Punishing a team for winning is stupid beyond belief and unrealistic, punishing a team for a friendly result is even worse because we will not be able to develope players for the future.
Shaneteam you have tried all through this thread to use whatever criteria fits your opinion to rip those complaining apart but at least it's keeping the topic active.
Your retort against Anaconda was especially pointless seeing that some other guy had posted about mail swapped with Greg that said that friendlies are not really affected and Anaconda's result was in a friendly, the fact that he actually had an inferior team based on ratings but still managed to scrape a draw made your post even worse.
Punishing a team for winning is stupid beyond belief and unrealistic, punishing a team for a friendly result is even worse because we will not be able to develope players for the future.
It's not using a real life justification to say a team should have won because a team was 3 divisions lower. In Sokker a team 3 divisions lower is going to be much weaker; is it not?
As for the rest of your post we seem to have differing opinions on how widespread this problem is. Most of the complainants in this thread are people who won (or nearly won) their countries top league last season. There are some managers who are having problems regaining mood after losing their playoff which is going to be fine from this season on. There are one or two teams playing in a league too weak for them (which is much the same as the top tier teams problems) and there was one, maybe two, that I remember having mood drops that were difficult to fathom.
I fully understand the financial consequences for teams who are losing big money but primarily these teams are ones that in the old system have had an unstoppable fan mood and therefore much better incomes relative to those trying to catch up. This new system makes it a more level playing field in that regard and more importantly for the huge percentage of other teams makes their fans more intelligent. Arguments against that on the grounds that top teams deserve top mood all the time as they're much better managers than other users are self serving and very subjective. The other big argument against this is that you now cannot have a B team for training as you'll lose (or only narrowly win) to a 3rd division team and lose fan mood so it's not worth having youth players. I think that is an incredibly blinkered view; easy solutions are to only play friendlies against teams who also have a B team or to have a better all round squad to deal with these games. As for cup games in this situation it's just as easy, manage your team better.
@Wenlock - I think you may have a point there on my helping this thread to continue :) I just think it would be a bad thing for the game to have to cave in to appease the elite players in each country.
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As for the rest of your post we seem to have differing opinions on how widespread this problem is. Most of the complainants in this thread are people who won (or nearly won) their countries top league last season. There are some managers who are having problems regaining mood after losing their playoff which is going to be fine from this season on. There are one or two teams playing in a league too weak for them (which is much the same as the top tier teams problems) and there was one, maybe two, that I remember having mood drops that were difficult to fathom.
I fully understand the financial consequences for teams who are losing big money but primarily these teams are ones that in the old system have had an unstoppable fan mood and therefore much better incomes relative to those trying to catch up. This new system makes it a more level playing field in that regard and more importantly for the huge percentage of other teams makes their fans more intelligent. Arguments against that on the grounds that top teams deserve top mood all the time as they're much better managers than other users are self serving and very subjective. The other big argument against this is that you now cannot have a B team for training as you'll lose (or only narrowly win) to a 3rd division team and lose fan mood so it's not worth having youth players. I think that is an incredibly blinkered view; easy solutions are to only play friendlies against teams who also have a B team or to have a better all round squad to deal with these games. As for cup games in this situation it's just as easy, manage your team better.
@Wenlock - I think you may have a point there on my helping this thread to continue :) I just think it would be a bad thing for the game to have to cave in to appease the elite players in each country.
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You are basically saying that if someone used to get 250k a week from sponsors while playing well last season, it is normal that he now gets 180k by playing the same way or even better.
You are also saying that there are only a couple of teams who are too strong for their leagues. Well, you probably don't know the success rate of lower division teams who try to promote every year to a higher league and get defeated by much stronger ones, do you? I wonder how many of these teams get "stuck" for many seasons in the same division.
You should have a look at the gap between a league and the level above. You probably think it's a piece of cake to get promoted through a qualifying game.
(Edit: after looking at your team history, I understand now why you think it is easy to promote: you are in Ireland's Premier Division since July 2006...)
Never mind. I give up keeping on explaining what seems obvious to everyone else...
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You are also saying that there are only a couple of teams who are too strong for their leagues. Well, you probably don't know the success rate of lower division teams who try to promote every year to a higher league and get defeated by much stronger ones, do you? I wonder how many of these teams get "stuck" for many seasons in the same division.
You should have a look at the gap between a league and the level above. You probably think it's a piece of cake to get promoted through a qualifying game.
(Edit: after looking at your team history, I understand now why you think it is easy to promote: you are in Ireland's Premier Division since July 2006...)
Never mind. I give up keeping on explaining what seems obvious to everyone else...
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