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Subject: Supporters Mood Dropping...
The only way to get developers to listen to this complaint is for people to boycott their Plus memberships. Do not pay for them the next time they come due. There are several free applications out there that can be used to track the status of your team.
personnaly it's obvious that I wont pay Plus anymore, until this is fixed.
Once you reached the top before this change it was impossible for anybody to ever catch up as you would always have a much superior economy, I think my fan mood has dropped maybe once or twice in the last 5 or 6 seasons meaning I've always had the best possible crowds and a huge income relative to anybody else.
That's so much untrue my friend.
I'm 4 times champion and get around 15k more per week as not so successful teams in my league.
This money is as well needed because my players have been better.
On the other side my club was always limited by the strength and quality of the other teams.
I got less fans joining after high wins than the teams got after losing against me.
This has always put everything in the league together and the other teams could come close.
This season some have made great transfers and have now a better team then me.
Then there comes the big hammer fan mood change that targets about only my club in our league.
As if I had any advantage, as if I was playing Sokker much longer than the other teams, as if I was that much in front of them.
And yes, it can easily happen that I need to relegate this season because of making loss between 200 and 300k euro each week, causing me to sell players while everyone else has it much easier.
I have suffered many seasons already on the self-regulating system, only had the luck that I hardly ever lost so could collect around +6 fans every week.
It would have been better if the league was more even in the past, but that was not my fault afterall.
That's so much untrue my friend.
I'm 4 times champion and get around 15k more per week as not so successful teams in my league.
This money is as well needed because my players have been better.
On the other side my club was always limited by the strength and quality of the other teams.
I got less fans joining after high wins than the teams got after losing against me.
This has always put everything in the league together and the other teams could come close.
This season some have made great transfers and have now a better team then me.
Then there comes the big hammer fan mood change that targets about only my club in our league.
As if I had any advantage, as if I was playing Sokker much longer than the other teams, as if I was that much in front of them.
And yes, it can easily happen that I need to relegate this season because of making loss between 200 and 300k euro each week, causing me to sell players while everyone else has it much easier.
I have suffered many seasons already on the self-regulating system, only had the luck that I hardly ever lost so could collect around +6 fans every week.
It would have been better if the league was more even in the past, but that was not my fault afterall.
A slight flaw in your argument there; when you listed the benefits you gained from having a top supporter mood all the time you never mentioned the income you got from always having high attendances. That was the thing that made your economy superior to others as they could never guarantee attendances like you could. Now your attendances vary as much as they have for other teams- you see that as a loss of 200k-300k per week. If you look at it objectively it means you always had that 200k+ week on week over those teams until this season.
Everybody else doesn't have it much easier- it's just now your supporters are as hard to keep happy as your rivals in the lower parts of your division.
I'm not picking on you specifically by the way- it's just your arguments are a bit more rational than other ones as you seem to actually read my posts :)
Everybody else doesn't have it much easier- it's just now your supporters are as hard to keep happy as your rivals in the lower parts of your division.
I'm not picking on you specifically by the way- it's just your arguments are a bit more rational than other ones as you seem to actually read my posts :)
I am sure people will consider that and I understand if they take that action. As it would have it though I just got 12 months activated a few hours before your post. I figured SK has given me plenty of fun before this all came up and while I had the cash I would get plus as a thank you. It's not as bad for me now as it was but I can still see the flaws in the system and it feels like I am just waiting until it kicks me in the nuts again like I said in that other post. If things do get that bad I will just quit anyway and not give the plus a second thought.
"I can totally see the point you're making but I don't think you realise just how easy us national champions have had it in this game. Once you reached the top before this change it was impossible for anybody to ever catch up as you would always have a much superior economy, I think my fan mood has dropped maybe once or twice in the last 5 or 6 seasons meaning I've always had the best possible crowds and a huge income relative to anybody else."
Yes but those ubber teams are a small percentage and this blanket solution affects more then just them. It might not even affect them all that much in some cases anyway because we don't know the exact critera that is used to determine what needs to be done to avoid a drop in mood. There are some of the ubber teams that have better reserves then many teams first teams so they can keep their wins coming in to satisfy any past performance requirement in all but the latter stages of the cups and by that stage if they do lose it should be to a top team anyway. The following quote is from the FA cup quarter finals thread on the English forums seeing I don't know how to link to it.........
" Phil_Fox85 to All
All the seeded teams through this round so plenty of big games possible in the semi-finals.
I managed to totally dominate what I think was Goats Kids first XI so I'm chuffed to bits with my reserves! "
So to me the smaller new clubs get away with a lot with being small and having no history for a start and some of the very big teams seem immune as well so who does that leave?
If this was just about inflation and the economy of SK there were other solutions that would have been better and more popular as well as being better applied to everyone like....
- Retiring coaches seeing I have seen it said that they don't retire as of yet.
- Contracts? Off the top of my head we could have contracts so after we recruit or sign a coach he is on a contract that will need renewing at some point and he will want some sort or signing on fee plus maybe a wage increase when that time comes.
- Up the transfer tax to 10% or even higher.
- Player contracts like the coach ones mentioned just now, the players could also want clauses for goals scored etc.
At least some of these suggestions have been mentioned on this forum before and they should be uniform in their affects on everyone unless I am missing something.
Yes but those ubber teams are a small percentage and this blanket solution affects more then just them. It might not even affect them all that much in some cases anyway because we don't know the exact critera that is used to determine what needs to be done to avoid a drop in mood. There are some of the ubber teams that have better reserves then many teams first teams so they can keep their wins coming in to satisfy any past performance requirement in all but the latter stages of the cups and by that stage if they do lose it should be to a top team anyway. The following quote is from the FA cup quarter finals thread on the English forums seeing I don't know how to link to it.........
" Phil_Fox85 to All
All the seeded teams through this round so plenty of big games possible in the semi-finals.
I managed to totally dominate what I think was Goats Kids first XI so I'm chuffed to bits with my reserves! "
So to me the smaller new clubs get away with a lot with being small and having no history for a start and some of the very big teams seem immune as well so who does that leave?
If this was just about inflation and the economy of SK there were other solutions that would have been better and more popular as well as being better applied to everyone like....
- Retiring coaches seeing I have seen it said that they don't retire as of yet.
- Contracts? Off the top of my head we could have contracts so after we recruit or sign a coach he is on a contract that will need renewing at some point and he will want some sort or signing on fee plus maybe a wage increase when that time comes.
- Up the transfer tax to 10% or even higher.
- Player contracts like the coach ones mentioned just now, the players could also want clauses for goals scored etc.
At least some of these suggestions have been mentioned on this forum before and they should be uniform in their affects on everyone unless I am missing something.
Your suggestions are good but even big games like championship manager have always had difficulties with contracts; as for a transfer tax wouldn't that affect everybody equally and therefore leave the imbalance as before?
Read my last post again. The reason top teams did so well is because of guaranteed crowds every game. That's what this change has fixed and something your changes wouldn't affect. A lot of inflation in the game stemmed from the bundles of cash from that those top teams could throw around.
None of the 'big' teams are immune from this - I've not lost a game and I'm three levels from the top. I'm not complaining about it as I think it's fair. What big teams do you mean? That quote you gave has nothing to do with what you're talking about :)
You've just said as well that your fan mood is fine now, where's the problem so? Your fan mood was rubbish at the start of the season as you lost your qualifier but that problem will not be here at the end of the season and had nothing to do with the new supporter mood calculation. If you promote this season you'll be utterly thankful for this change as your supporter mood will not collapse like what happened to a lot of teams in the past. Why threaten to quit about something that will help you in the long run and that isn't giving you any problems at the moment?
Read my last post again. The reason top teams did so well is because of guaranteed crowds every game. That's what this change has fixed and something your changes wouldn't affect. A lot of inflation in the game stemmed from the bundles of cash from that those top teams could throw around.
None of the 'big' teams are immune from this - I've not lost a game and I'm three levels from the top. I'm not complaining about it as I think it's fair. What big teams do you mean? That quote you gave has nothing to do with what you're talking about :)
You've just said as well that your fan mood is fine now, where's the problem so? Your fan mood was rubbish at the start of the season as you lost your qualifier but that problem will not be here at the end of the season and had nothing to do with the new supporter mood calculation. If you promote this season you'll be utterly thankful for this change as your supporter mood will not collapse like what happened to a lot of teams in the past. Why threaten to quit about something that will help you in the long run and that isn't giving you any problems at the moment?
"Your suggestions are good but even big games like championship manager have always had difficulties with contracts; as for a transfer tax wouldn't that affect everybody equally and therefore leave the imbalance as before?"
It would affect everyone the same yes but if this fan mood change was about the SK economy then something that affects everyone the same IS what's needed instead of targetting one group but sometimes missing them and hitting other groups worse.
"Read my last post again. The reason top teams did so well is because of guaranteed crowds every game. That's what this change has fixed and something your changes wouldn't affect. A lot of inflation in the game stemmed from the bundles of cash from that those top teams could throw around."
Then adjust the way crowds are calculated so that top teams can't get so much instead of hitting mid level teams hard. I don't go looking around a great deal but looking at the English leagues to me it looks like the prem and divII are pretty even from top to bottom of their leagues so this new system might not affect them hugely because if they lose one week and drop a level they could get it back the next week with a win.
Div4 might be unaffected too because there are so many bots and often at best only one strong team in each league that can easily go around spanking inactives or newbies. This leaves div 3 and to me this is where the problem is. I would think that there are often 2 or 3 teams that challenge and a couple who came up that are too new and struggle a lot with the rest in the middle of the spectrum. With the really volatile nature of the fan mood system it can be extremely easy to drop many levels but stupidly hard to climb back up again, how are these teams supposed to close the gap now?
"That quote you gave has nothing to do with what you're talking about :)"
If a big team can beat others using his reserves with comfort because his income allows for far better quality reserves then he isn't losing games is he so it does have something to do with this topic surely.
"You've just said as well that your fan mood is fine now, where's the problem so?"
We are approaching the half way point in the season and I am still not back to where I was on top fan mood. I am not even getting any new fans back to replace all that left so I am actually still down on the whole really and one result could drop me back down multiple levels on the fan mood even if I win. With that in mind I can still see that the system is stupid and is/can still affect me which I consider to be a mid level English team when this was supposed to be aimed more at the elite wasn't it?
"If you promote this season you'll be utterly thankful for this change as your supporter mood will not collapse like what happened to a lot of teams in the past."
Whatever makes you think that? We don't know the formula of the fan mood but if past success plays a huge part then I will be expected to win lots of games even though I am in a tougher division and should be realistically expecting to fight off relegation. As I posted many posts ago, one of the guys that came up by surprise last season is outclassed by the other teams in my league but dropped to depressed after his third loss and a draw. His first loss was 3-0 and the second loss was 5-0 but there was that draw in the middle that had to be a pretty good redult. The third loss was 8-0 but that result however was with his reserves and only ten men because he forgot to set the team up properly. Taking into account that he was playing the second place team from the previous season with ten reserve team players I think 8-0 was a good result really but his fickle fans disagreed.
"Why threaten to quit about something that will help you in the long run and that isn't giving you any problems at the moment?"
I am not a fortune teller so I will see how things go and if I stop enjoying SK I will stop playing it just like I would any other game. It wasn't a threat so much as just being realistic, you do not think people will quit playing a game or stop supporting a game if they stop enjoying that game? :)
(edited)
It would affect everyone the same yes but if this fan mood change was about the SK economy then something that affects everyone the same IS what's needed instead of targetting one group but sometimes missing them and hitting other groups worse.
"Read my last post again. The reason top teams did so well is because of guaranteed crowds every game. That's what this change has fixed and something your changes wouldn't affect. A lot of inflation in the game stemmed from the bundles of cash from that those top teams could throw around."
Then adjust the way crowds are calculated so that top teams can't get so much instead of hitting mid level teams hard. I don't go looking around a great deal but looking at the English leagues to me it looks like the prem and divII are pretty even from top to bottom of their leagues so this new system might not affect them hugely because if they lose one week and drop a level they could get it back the next week with a win.
Div4 might be unaffected too because there are so many bots and often at best only one strong team in each league that can easily go around spanking inactives or newbies. This leaves div 3 and to me this is where the problem is. I would think that there are often 2 or 3 teams that challenge and a couple who came up that are too new and struggle a lot with the rest in the middle of the spectrum. With the really volatile nature of the fan mood system it can be extremely easy to drop many levels but stupidly hard to climb back up again, how are these teams supposed to close the gap now?
"That quote you gave has nothing to do with what you're talking about :)"
If a big team can beat others using his reserves with comfort because his income allows for far better quality reserves then he isn't losing games is he so it does have something to do with this topic surely.
"You've just said as well that your fan mood is fine now, where's the problem so?"
We are approaching the half way point in the season and I am still not back to where I was on top fan mood. I am not even getting any new fans back to replace all that left so I am actually still down on the whole really and one result could drop me back down multiple levels on the fan mood even if I win. With that in mind I can still see that the system is stupid and is/can still affect me which I consider to be a mid level English team when this was supposed to be aimed more at the elite wasn't it?
"If you promote this season you'll be utterly thankful for this change as your supporter mood will not collapse like what happened to a lot of teams in the past."
Whatever makes you think that? We don't know the formula of the fan mood but if past success plays a huge part then I will be expected to win lots of games even though I am in a tougher division and should be realistically expecting to fight off relegation. As I posted many posts ago, one of the guys that came up by surprise last season is outclassed by the other teams in my league but dropped to depressed after his third loss and a draw. His first loss was 3-0 and the second loss was 5-0 but there was that draw in the middle that had to be a pretty good redult. The third loss was 8-0 but that result however was with his reserves and only ten men because he forgot to set the team up properly. Taking into account that he was playing the second place team from the previous season with ten reserve team players I think 8-0 was a good result really but his fickle fans disagreed.
"Why threaten to quit about something that will help you in the long run and that isn't giving you any problems at the moment?"
I am not a fortune teller so I will see how things go and if I stop enjoying SK I will stop playing it just like I would any other game. It wasn't a threat so much as just being realistic, you do not think people will quit playing a game or stop supporting a game if they stop enjoying that game? :)
(edited)
If a big team can beat others using his reserves with comfort because his income allows for far better quality reserves then he isn't losing games is he so it does have something to do with this topic surely.
Sorry mate, still lost...
I don't think you get how the mood is calculated yet, it's based in success in league positions from the looks of things so if you promote you would automatically be rated lower than any team you were playing in the new division. Also picking out an example of a player who lost fan mood after he forgot to set orders is probably not the best to make your point. Of course his fans were disappointed... As for your own team, your problem stems from the qualifier but you seem to be determined to ignore that fact amongst many others...
Sorry mate, still lost...
I don't think you get how the mood is calculated yet, it's based in success in league positions from the looks of things so if you promote you would automatically be rated lower than any team you were playing in the new division. Also picking out an example of a player who lost fan mood after he forgot to set orders is probably not the best to make your point. Of course his fans were disappointed... As for your own team, your problem stems from the qualifier but you seem to be determined to ignore that fact amongst many others...
you do not think people will quit playing a game or stop supporting a game if they stop enjoying that game? :)
true of course. You could extended this line like that:
we stop being successful, then we stop enjoying it, then we leave.
sometimes its worth it living through an unsuccessful time, it makes us enjoy the winning more.
true of course. You could extended this line like that:
we stop being successful, then we stop enjoying it, then we leave.
sometimes its worth it living through an unsuccessful time, it makes us enjoy the winning more.
A slight flaw in your argument there; when you listed the benefits you gained from having a top supporter mood all the time you never mentioned the income you got from always having high attendances.
That's what I deserved when having 13 wins and one draw a season, right?
I bet the other teams in the top 4 positions had nice fan mood as well, else they wouldn't been able to catch more supporters per week than I could.
Well, I will cross out this season and try to stay alive. Maybe I will close the youthschool and kick the unearthly or a magical coach.
I hope things will get better as of next season.
That's what I deserved when having 13 wins and one draw a season, right?
I bet the other teams in the top 4 positions had nice fan mood as well, else they wouldn't been able to catch more supporters per week than I could.
Well, I will cross out this season and try to stay alive. Maybe I will close the youthschool and kick the unearthly or a magical coach.
I hope things will get better as of next season.
"Sorry mate, still lost...
I don't think you get how the mood is calculated yet, it's based in success in league positions from the looks of things so if you promote you would automatically be rated lower than any team you were playing in the new division. Also picking out an example of a player who lost fan mood after he forgot to set orders is probably not the best to make your point. Of course his fans were disappointed... As for your own team, your problem stems from the qualifier but you seem to be determined to ignore that fact amongst many others..."
I gave you an example of a big team beating another big team with reserves to show how some of the very big teams could be immune to the change that apparently was brought in to reel the big teams back in yet you discard it.
I give you an example of a newly promoted team being battered by the mood swings when this change was supposed to help those sorts of teams yet you discard that too. You say of course his fans will be upset because he forgot and played his reserves, are you trying to say that these mindless fickle fans have been programmed to notice a team not playing their strongest line up yet they can't understand the concept of not winning games by 50 goals when players are missing from suspensions, injuries or even when teams are not that much stronger if at all then the opponent?
Apparently according to you I don't understand the formula of the new fan mood, well as far as I know it hasn't been made public so everyone doesn't understand it and that's partly why there is so many complaints.
Seeing you have such insight maybe you should clue us all up 'cos up to now you have linked it to ranking, team value, player average ratings, player average ratings for the team, win streaks, past finishes in the league, past finishes in the cup and maybe even other things that I can't be arsed to check back on all the pages of this topic to find out. Even when people complained about mood drops after friendlies you shot them down with what ever excuse seemed to fit yet someone had posted that Greg had stated friendlies don't have an affect.
Yes my problems stemmed from the qualifier but I still get affected by this because it makes it often stupidly hard to get the mood back up and stop the fan walk outs before we even get to having the fans come back just to get back to previous levels when the only game I have lost this season was with 10 men right at the end of extra time against a premier league team in the cup.
I don't think you get how the mood is calculated yet, it's based in success in league positions from the looks of things so if you promote you would automatically be rated lower than any team you were playing in the new division. Also picking out an example of a player who lost fan mood after he forgot to set orders is probably not the best to make your point. Of course his fans were disappointed... As for your own team, your problem stems from the qualifier but you seem to be determined to ignore that fact amongst many others..."
I gave you an example of a big team beating another big team with reserves to show how some of the very big teams could be immune to the change that apparently was brought in to reel the big teams back in yet you discard it.
I give you an example of a newly promoted team being battered by the mood swings when this change was supposed to help those sorts of teams yet you discard that too. You say of course his fans will be upset because he forgot and played his reserves, are you trying to say that these mindless fickle fans have been programmed to notice a team not playing their strongest line up yet they can't understand the concept of not winning games by 50 goals when players are missing from suspensions, injuries or even when teams are not that much stronger if at all then the opponent?
Apparently according to you I don't understand the formula of the new fan mood, well as far as I know it hasn't been made public so everyone doesn't understand it and that's partly why there is so many complaints.
Seeing you have such insight maybe you should clue us all up 'cos up to now you have linked it to ranking, team value, player average ratings, player average ratings for the team, win streaks, past finishes in the league, past finishes in the cup and maybe even other things that I can't be arsed to check back on all the pages of this topic to find out. Even when people complained about mood drops after friendlies you shot them down with what ever excuse seemed to fit yet someone had posted that Greg had stated friendlies don't have an affect.
Yes my problems stemmed from the qualifier but I still get affected by this because it makes it often stupidly hard to get the mood back up and stop the fan walk outs before we even get to having the fans come back just to get back to previous levels when the only game I have lost this season was with 10 men right at the end of extra time against a premier league team in the cup.
hey why am i loosing supporters, when i am 1st in my league? since 6 weeks there hasn't been a new supporter by me
Friendlies do change mood, but a reduced effect from league or cup match.
this is VERY BAD... bug. :(
Please someone do something about this (admin, or who can write programs :) ), or erase this diagram thing!!! it just confuses people. :S Like me. :(
Yesterday, after my victory, this diagram increased to 4th level... now as i can see, it than went down to 2nd level, than to 3, and up to 6... AFTER last days match!!! WTF IS THIS BUG! :SSS
Fan mood level problem, with the diagram
(edited)
Please someone do something about this (admin, or who can write programs :) ), or erase this diagram thing!!! it just confuses people. :S Like me. :(
Yesterday, after my victory, this diagram increased to 4th level... now as i can see, it than went down to 2nd level, than to 3, and up to 6... AFTER last days match!!! WTF IS THIS BUG! :SSS
Fan mood level problem, with the diagram
(edited)