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Subject: [IDEA] Change training system.
juytt to
All
currently:
Coaches can improve their team with training.
But the training is set too low and it is not possible to balance the team, except by selling a player "trained" and buy other players with profit (if any). There is little or no sportive or competitive reasons to sell/buy players.
Some coaches (traders) use the HFT (high frequency trading): Buy cheap without sporting reasons and resell quickly at a higher price to make pofits and improve his team. This system works better than coaches who drive their players to have a more competitive team and win games! (Faster and costs less). Eg. this team http://online.sokker.org/glowna.php?teamID=85956
The main reason is that we can efficiently train a few positions, but not all of his team. This promotes trading and Sokker is primarily a sports management game, not a business one.
Another consequence, it is not easy to keep and train their juniors, again because the number of players trained is limited. Some coaches choose to abandon the competition and lead the SPEED training for the benefit of all and especially the juniors. It is absurd to abandon the competition, make a junior "farm team", which will be more competitive in future (with profit) than teams that play the competition.
Again Sokker is a game of strategy and tactics, not a farm game.
Another absurd system of training: to play a player in a position that does not match to improve his training. ex. choose a keeper in midflield to improve the training passing.
My proposals:
1) Provide more general training, depending on the position played the week (eg A player playing mid receive more passes, less scoring ans def ..) + a bonus feature for the selected training, this time less efficient than now. No more "choose position" dependance, or maybe a cumulative little bonus when you choose a position.
2) Players bought can not be sold before 7 weeks in club. Regardless of whether they played or not. This is to have no more high frequency trading.
(edited)
Coaches can improve their team with training.
But the training is set too low and it is not possible to balance the team, except by selling a player "trained" and buy other players with profit (if any). There is little or no sportive or competitive reasons to sell/buy players.
Some coaches (traders) use the HFT (high frequency trading): Buy cheap without sporting reasons and resell quickly at a higher price to make pofits and improve his team. This system works better than coaches who drive their players to have a more competitive team and win games! (Faster and costs less). Eg. this team http://online.sokker.org/glowna.php?teamID=85956
The main reason is that we can efficiently train a few positions, but not all of his team. This promotes trading and Sokker is primarily a sports management game, not a business one.
Another consequence, it is not easy to keep and train their juniors, again because the number of players trained is limited. Some coaches choose to abandon the competition and lead the SPEED training for the benefit of all and especially the juniors. It is absurd to abandon the competition, make a junior "farm team", which will be more competitive in future (with profit) than teams that play the competition.
Again Sokker is a game of strategy and tactics, not a farm game.
Another absurd system of training: to play a player in a position that does not match to improve his training. ex. choose a keeper in midflield to improve the training passing.
My proposals:
1) Provide more general training, depending on the position played the week (eg A player playing mid receive more passes, less scoring ans def ..) + a bonus feature for the selected training, this time less efficient than now. No more "choose position" dependance, or maybe a cumulative little bonus when you choose a position.
2) Players bought can not be sold before 7 weeks in club. Regardless of whether they played or not. This is to have no more high frequency trading.
(edited)
Current training may not be perfect, but is not bad either. What is not so OK is the advantages that the Trasfer system gives to daytraders. If you change the training system by whatever you can imagine, in the end the trining could become something worse (remember this good saying: "if something works ok, do NOT touch it"), but the financial result will be *exactly the same*, as daytraders will adapt and continue buying and selling and playing to "Sokker's Monopoly".
To enhace sport over daytrading, measures that *effectively* benefit sport over daytrading (on other words, strongly penalizing daytrading) should be enforced.
For instance, these (all, some, or possible variations or similar measures) could be considered:
- A club can only buy in the same season a maximun of N players (5-6 could be a good number). This limit would apply after the first full season (16 weeks) in Sokker of every team (in order that new users can amend mistakes, and/or form a decent initial rooster of players).
- A club can only sell in the same season a maximun of that same number of players. Juniors exited from school and the initial players from new teams would not count against this limit.
- Players train with a 100% efectivity when in his original club, of when in a club which has bought directly from it. For each additional transfer, a -10% cumulative penalization (until a maximum of -90%) is added to the training and team-work gains (it could be seen as a cumulative a permanent moral and psychological damage to teh player: he stops being a football player to become a market commodity).
- Each time a player is sold (other than the first, from his original club), an extra and cumulative 10% (to a maximum of 90%) is added to money which the seller does not receive that goes to taxes (that is, contacts, advisers and intermediaries rise their 'fees').
- At the end of each season, a balance of the money got form transfers (income from sales - pays from buys) is done for ecah club, and if the balance is positive, an extra tax over this amount is applied to the club. The percentage could be tabulated as in RL, for instance (currency €):
0 - 10,000: 0%
10,001 - 100,000: 10%
100,001 - 250,000: 20%
250,001 - 1,000,000: 30%
1,000,001 - 5,000,000: 40%
5,000,001+: 50%
Of course, this could put a club in in bankrupcy risk as normal in the event he could not overcome (having shared) the costs.
______________________
Of course, daytraders would nont like any measure as such.
But lots of managers who either don't have limitless free time to search, study and bid and invest in Transfers, or like to manage a football club instead of an agency of brokers in a stock exchange of players, surely would love them.
To enhace sport over daytrading, measures that *effectively* benefit sport over daytrading (on other words, strongly penalizing daytrading) should be enforced.
For instance, these (all, some, or possible variations or similar measures) could be considered:
- A club can only buy in the same season a maximun of N players (5-6 could be a good number). This limit would apply after the first full season (16 weeks) in Sokker of every team (in order that new users can amend mistakes, and/or form a decent initial rooster of players).
- A club can only sell in the same season a maximun of that same number of players. Juniors exited from school and the initial players from new teams would not count against this limit.
- Players train with a 100% efectivity when in his original club, of when in a club which has bought directly from it. For each additional transfer, a -10% cumulative penalization (until a maximum of -90%) is added to the training and team-work gains (it could be seen as a cumulative a permanent moral and psychological damage to teh player: he stops being a football player to become a market commodity).
- Each time a player is sold (other than the first, from his original club), an extra and cumulative 10% (to a maximum of 90%) is added to money which the seller does not receive that goes to taxes (that is, contacts, advisers and intermediaries rise their 'fees').
- At the end of each season, a balance of the money got form transfers (income from sales - pays from buys) is done for ecah club, and if the balance is positive, an extra tax over this amount is applied to the club. The percentage could be tabulated as in RL, for instance (currency €):
0 - 10,000: 0%
10,001 - 100,000: 10%
100,001 - 250,000: 20%
250,001 - 1,000,000: 30%
1,000,001 - 5,000,000: 40%
5,000,001+: 50%
Of course, this could put a club in in bankrupcy risk as normal in the event he could not overcome (having shared) the costs.
______________________
Of course, daytraders would nont like any measure as such.
But lots of managers who either don't have limitless free time to search, study and bid and invest in Transfers, or like to manage a football club instead of an agency of brokers in a stock exchange of players, surely would love them.
of course +1 :-)
in my opinion this is good idea :-)
in real football clubs players train all attributes, but they should choose one which they will train more... :-)
so if they add some genedral training like you said ( Provide more general training, depending on the position played the week (eg A player playing mid receive more passes, less scoring ans def ..) it could be really good :-)
in my opinion this is good idea :-)
in real football clubs players train all attributes, but they should choose one which they will train more... :-)
so if they add some genedral training like you said ( Provide more general training, depending on the position played the week (eg A player playing mid receive more passes, less scoring ans def ..) it could be really good :-)
@tiolucas my point 2) is most easy to implement for dev. (remember this good saying: "if you have 2 solutions, one easy, one complex, take the easy way")
You forgot the "overall training" problem for juniors and team. Daytrading is only one part of the problem.
if something dont works, touch it ! ;-)
You forgot the "overall training" problem for juniors and team. Daytrading is only one part of the problem.
if something dont works, touch it ! ;-)
And I would like add in real life all football teams are Goalkeeper coach.
that is ridiculous in sokker to have a coach to train only Two players on 22. ( with the present rule)
I think that each team could be train their GK with a trainer and the other player with another one so.
that is ridiculous in sokker to have a coach to train only Two players on 22. ( with the present rule)
I think that each team could be train their GK with a trainer and the other player with another one so.
I told it because a new training system would be precisely that: a NEW training system.
And since devs seem not to carry on any serious testing, so whatever new thing which is released in the last times is either full of bugs or in need of a lot of fixing and tunning... well, I would prefer not to see broken other (more) thing (one that is currently is working fine).
And since devs seem not to carry on any serious testing, so whatever new thing which is released in the last times is either full of bugs or in need of a lot of fixing and tunning... well, I would prefer not to see broken other (more) thing (one that is currently is working fine).
i understand
It's a new system but not a big change in interface and dev... change training ratio bonus, update rules, and that's all. so that's limit bugs
It's a new system but not a big change in interface and dev... change training ratio bonus, update rules, and that's all. so that's limit bugs
+1 for your opinion and vision about the training, completed with what said clarom with the goalkeeper coach.
more tax on transfer? absolutely NOT! I'm fine with the limit transfer number but no more tax please. like it not hard enough to earn some money in this game. what will it end up? more power to the strong team cause strong team at least have a junior school and can still earn from that while weak teams don't.
2) Players bought can not be sold before 7 weeks in club. Regardless of whether they played or not. This is to have no more high frequency trading.
Absolutely +1 for this idea. I don't like the other idea as the training system is Sokker is fine. Ofcourse it could be different, but that will also have disadvantages.
Absolutely +1 for this idea. I don't like the other idea as the training system is Sokker is fine. Ofcourse it could be different, but that will also have disadvantages.
2) Players bought can not be sold before 7 weeks in club. Regardless of whether they played or not. This is to have no more high frequency trading.
this is the only thing that should be changed in training system......and can be not 7 weeks but 1 entire season!
this is the only thing that should be changed in training system......and can be not 7 weeks but 1 entire season!
Ok point 2) is an easy solution for high frequency trading.
But i point other problems because of the impossibly to train all your team and you need frequent trading.
Consequence of the actual system you need to specialize training (with absurd sportive consequence).
You can't imagine a team to be very competitive in long term with 22 (talent 3!) young players for example. Impossible. You absolutly need trading (even if you dont want!). And of cource, as a sportiv simulator, it is absurd that less than half of your team is train (general training is very very low compare to specialized)
But i point other problems because of the impossibly to train all your team and you need frequent trading.
Consequence of the actual system you need to specialize training (with absurd sportive consequence).
You can't imagine a team to be very competitive in long term with 22 (talent 3!) young players for example. Impossible. You absolutly need trading (even if you dont want!). And of cource, as a sportiv simulator, it is absurd that less than half of your team is train (general training is very very low compare to specialized)
But i point other problems because of the impossibly to train all your team
When training for example the skill 'defender' with training match order DEF, your other players with different match orders also train the skill 'defender' but less effective (see rules chapter 6).
When training for example the skill 'defender' with training match order DEF, your other players with different match orders also train the skill 'defender' but less effective (see rules chapter 6).
yes and when you train Goalkepper what's happen for the others player. This situation is stupid
People should take into consideration that the current system benefits for the older players compared to this idea, since you have spots which dont give effective training you can have them there. This would do so you are much more capable of making a young team and improving long term. But it would also give extra possibilities of screwing up results for several seasons to become stronger on only dealing with youthsters...... and i dont like that part, i would actually like a bigger need for making results for all teams.
But i would also like some moderation so you cant only train tackling or passing etc.... maybe make it possible to have a trainer for each chain that can train up to some numbers of players, that way you could save money by having an cheap GK trainer cause your GK is old ie.
Another way around could do so it was so expensive that teams still would have to choose wheither or not to train their 4 28 yo´s def or buy a cheap coach that keeps their skills high..... :)
But i would also like some moderation so you cant only train tackling or passing etc.... maybe make it possible to have a trainer for each chain that can train up to some numbers of players, that way you could save money by having an cheap GK trainer cause your GK is old ie.
Another way around could do so it was so expensive that teams still would have to choose wheither or not to train their 4 28 yo´s def or buy a cheap coach that keeps their skills high..... :)