Subject: Contracted employees

Do any of you guys with contracts have a clause opting out of Regulation 4 of the Working Time Regulations 1998, where you waive your right to a maximum 48 hour working week?
Our HR is rolling out new contracts and they are claiming that "this is a standard exclusion clause required by the majority of businesses", but I don't know a single person who has this in their contract.
Coupled with the fact they have also replaced the clause saying that overtime is payable at the company's discretion with one that says no overtime is payable, I can see no good reason to sign the new contract.
Just wondering..

I don't work in IT (I put this because most people on this forum seem to), I work in sales as a Business Developement Consultant and my last 2 contracts have included the opt-out.

On a personal level I don't agree with it, but if I want the role I have it's the price I pay...

The only person I know who has one works at least 10 hours a day as an overpaid slave-dog at a hedge fund.

I think when i worked part time at Morrisons while i was at uni i had to sign something opting out of this if thats any help?

...are you insinuating I'm a slave or a dog, or worse still both?

You work for a hedge fund too d'you?
Silence man-horse!

I prefer the sound of man-horse ...just!

even if you sign it, you cannot be forced to work overtime, as your contracted hours will remain 35 p/w (or whatever yours are). any additional hours must be a) agreed by you, and b) compensated in accordance with your contract e.g. overtime or time in lieu. If you do not sign then your overtime will be capped at 13 hours max per week, so you could potentially lose out. It is indeed a fairly standard contract clause ever since the working time regulations came in 10 years ago.

Cheers, maybe I'll sign it then. I joined the company 10 years ago on Friday, so that probably explains why the clause wasn't in my previous contract.
I've already caused trouble by requesting (and being denied) demotion, so maybe I've done my boat-rocking for the moment..
One problem is that the new contract stipulates no compensation is to be paid for extra hours worked...
And they are deducting three days from our holiday allowance baecause the business chooses to close between Christmas and New Year, which seems rather rude to me.
Ah well, where did I leave that CV..

They sound like a right bunch of arses! Have you just got new management or something?

Nah, we've just got big enough to merit having a dedicated HR department and they are busy goose-stepping all over us with their hob-nailed jackboots.

We have an HR department and they do what they are bloody well told!

Our lot seem far more focused on enforcing obligations than protecting rights..

Ours tried that, I think it was to make sure they had a job rather than be found out as the scabietic parasites that they actually are.

Oh, and H&S people, estate agents, bankers and the people that pretend they are from a caring charity and try to get you to give tuppence ha'penny a week to some kid in Uganda.

the christmas thing is all too common i'm afraid. most businesses do at least offer a deal though... eg close for 4 days and you have to take 2 leave while they give you the other 2 days off. By law they have to compensate you if you are working shifts - this can be done as pay or time in lieu but is a legal requirement. if you are salaried then they do not have to, but you can simply work to rule - i.e. do only your contracted 35 hours per week, or if on flexi time then 1820 hours per year.

in the uk we have got into the habit of working way over the standard hours, and salaried staff are made to feel guilty for not staying 2 hours late, or for taking lunch. this is one of the reasons i have avoided working in the uk as much as possible. if you are regularly required to work more than say 40 hours per week (1 hour per day overtime) then you should raise the need for additional resource, or in the case of 50 hours per week you should even demand a job share.

you can refuse to sign the opt out form and that will ensure you never work over 48 hours or you could take them to court if they force you to, i would say don't sign and stay if and when necessary but at your will and you will leave yourself in a much better position, is your right not to sign