Subject: C Leagues

to ALL that oppose the changes

please READ what changes are proposed first before you say you do not like them. also please read the problems that we point out.

it seems that some of you read one or two posts and WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING the whole situation disagree about the changes

you actually agreed with the idea of cutting down to 32 teams before...

I still do. I just can't believe anyone actually trying could lose to a bot more then maybe once all season.

I agree with the boredom argument, especially if you DO finish first, but lose a qualifier. Then there's nothing more you can do, admittedly, but try again next season.

But if you are a team not winning your C league, thats sad.

enoguh with this, lol.

I actually think it's a good idea, but doubt it'd be easily doable. If there's a routine to do it, i'll have greg do it. If it requires manual shifting of users to leagues that will "survive" the purge, it won't be done i'm sure.

some of them never lose to a bot and still don't promote. that's the point.

that is one of the points. like apacan said it;s not only about advancing but about enjoying the season

you say that if it involves manual moving it wont be done? i do program and have to rearrange a lot of things in my results so i know that it takes time and is frustrating but should be doable in a reasonable time.

if the admins are not willing to do it, please explain to us the procedure and we could do it for you.

i was in c league for three seasons. just promoted this season. if i had promoted after my first season, i'd of been killed in b league and been relegated... how is that fun or productive?? having only one or two other humans in your c league is great for learning and developing your team... i reiterate, the population problem with sokker isn't the retention of c league teams... its the retention of A and B league teams that get frustrated with no being able to advance and quitting... i think creating a two league Minor League right below the ML would help reduce a lot of the log jam up top...

"...having only one or two other humans in your c league is great for learning and developing your team..."

How is that? How on earth playing against an automated team that uses the same tactics every time could be more instructive than facing a thinking opponent that adjusts and corrects his own mistakes? You're dead wrong.

"...if i had promoted after my first season, i'd of been killed in b league and been relegated..."

Probably true, but what does it have to do with this proposal. Who's talking about promoting teams right away? What we propose has nothing to do with the ease of promotion.

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Fair enough. However, if it comes to a manual adjustment or none at all than I can help, if it is possible without jeopardizing the integrity of the game. Just tell me what to do.

really???

I joined sokker last December. It was still the first part of the season and my team was in the third place. I managed to win all the games even against the human users and later I beat my opponent in the qualification game. I was a bit lucky but nevertheless I advanced after a half a season and now I am 6th in my B league so I think it is not too bad.

My case proves that what you said about necessity to learn for three seasons is wrong. Most of the learning for me happened during the first half of the season in the B league where I won only once and it was against anohter guy who just advanced from a C league. the second half of the season was quite different though. i lost my games agaisnt the much stroneger teams but some of them were close (3:1, 3:2) and I won 3 other games.

if we have more real users in the C leagues then people who learn very slowly will take a bit more time to advance but those who will manage to advance should do just fine.

the post above was actuallu written by me. dego2007 and myself are friends and are discussing the sokker together a lot. when i wrote that message i though it was me who was logged in but actually he was logged in and i wrote that message from his account.

sorry for that

do you really think the devs are going to create a database interface for users to modify league structures? you say you're a programmer, get serious then.

1. I never said that I was a programmer.
2. I offered help with manual labor if such was required to implement the change.
3. I was just trying to be friendly. My apologies.

"if we have more real users in the C leagues then people who learn very slowly will take a bit more time to advance but those who will manage to advance should do just fine. "
~krepa

so now, you are saying make it harder for people to advance, and the ones that stick around will be ok... that flies in the face of the entire arguement that its the lack of competition and boredom that are driving away c league managers in droves...

First: Yes, it is easier to learn against bots, why do you think a firing range has fixed targets?
Second: I might have taken two and a half seasons to promote to B, but I'm not set to play in a Relegation match, like you, so maybe I spent my time in C a little more wisely than you...
Third: The fact you and your friend can both log on to the same computer, and you're not always sure who is signed on, stinks of collusion.

must have gotten confused then, i thought you had said earlier that you were a programmer. didn't mean to offend.

Suffice it to say that it's not a manual change, and unless they already have routines for this it would take a pretty extensive amount of coding and testing - at least a day of an experienced developer to move all the teams into 32 instead of 64.

This game is not about playing against bots.
One of the main issue about this game is challenging other users. To have only 2 real users in each C-league is a little too few.

Anyway I respect whatever your opinion is, but let me say that if something stinks, this might be you. :) We wrote to admis some months ago that since we are friends we log in from the same computer from time to time.

We started this forum just because we like this game and we would like to improve it.
There is no need to accuse of collusion, your attitude is pretty unfair, we just wanted to share some common opinion about this game,
hoping that this will lead to an improvement.