Subject: Bargain?

then how do you account for aquisition cost of the trainee?

with skill distribution being what it is, and player draws being what they are, then it seems to be that your position is that a youth school might never be profitable... and therefore should never be used by anyone with out money to waste. and if thats true and people are wasting money on it, then why does anyone have a youth school?

Purchase price plus 1/10 (or 6 if you train strikers) the combined salaries of your head coach and your 3 assistants minus sale price equals profit from a training slot.

Your trying to combine youth school with your regular 10 (or 6 if you train strikers) training slots. They must be accounted for separately.

i know the math.

i'm not trying to add the two together; i'm suggesting that the training cost of a youth pull is then his purchase price for further evaluation of profit once sold after training.

you don't seem to want to discuss the fact that most juniors and junior schools run at a loss. and that if thats the case, you'd suggest everyone, except A and ML teams, not have one.

the luck involved in skill distribution radically changes the odds and, i believe, the need for a junior school for a young team. though i advise its much more a lottery ticket system than THE proven way to glory.

If you know the math then you know you are combining training.

I disagree with your statement about youth school running at a loss. For the first season or 2 with a new team that may be correct, it just takes a little time. Most new teams can't afford to run it at a loss right away. Let teams get there finances in order and then figure out how much they can spend.


I won't argue that there is a degree of luck involved when pulling a youth. You don't need to sell pulls for millions to make a profit.

I don't know what your proven way to glory is, I highly doubt I have taken that path.

so at this point, its just to be arguementative?...

I just read a few of the posts above and I agree with ivysafety.

also one of the biggest benefits of the JS is that you really know the talent of the players. i keep it mostly to get players for my team :)

i disagree that when you train your own junior and then sell him you cannot give benefit for that to the junior school.

i really agree with dagwood here. all those guys you listed were pretty crappy to begin with and more easily attained from the transferlist, and you trained them outside the school to make a decent profit. thats not really a pro for your ys but benefits of a good training program

you asked if success of a youthsquad is pulling 2M 16yos.. it pretty much is, that or pulling really high lvl guys, both of which are gambles new teams cant really afford. otherwise its probably cheaper to just buy guys from the TL

those guys weren't in rebuttal to dag. its what brion asked for. as far as those guys go, i don't know if i could find guys who have those same distributions and talent levels for 20-30k. which is what they cost me.

someone just spend +100k on this guy, with unknown talent, who i think is comparable(note; i didn't say exactly the same, or as good, better or worse, i said comparable):
Cornea Chiţulescu, age: 18
club: FC Belvedere, country: România
value: 100 250 $, wage: 1 125 $
unearthly form, hopeless tactical discipline

unsatisfactory stamina tragic keeper
hopeless pace good defender
solid technique good playmaker
good passing weak striker

and this guy was listed for a monday afternoon...
(edited)

ok. work week is over. i have four days to finish working up your numbers...so be patient.

in the meantime...I think we are talking two different things. first, i use my youth school to get guys for say 10-30k to fill various positions on my squad. with the level of skill for my existing squad, to equal or improve on that would take about that much. second, i also use it to generate cash by selling the ones i can't use. the margins are measured differently. for the ones i keep, the measure of value is whether i could have AT THAT TIME obtained a comparable player for less money on the TL. unfortunately, we can't track that, or at least i don't think we can. the historical data is not there. for the one i sell, did i get equal or greater value. i think this is the original question.

someone check my math, but i think the margins for freshly promoted junior sold would be something like:

how many juniors have you trained total, at $1k per week. then you need to know what was the total cost of your coaches. and subtract that from whatever you have received from sales of freshly promoted juniors and you have the number.

the math for those you keep and train is different. and if someone can help me with the math on that one, i would greatly appreciate it.

one other thought...how do you calculate the additional cash you get from future transfers into this? for example, if the guy i sell to someone is later sold to someone else, i get money. where do you fit that into these figures?

2 things

use number of slots instead of youths trained. (that may not be possible to track but is a true cost)

Cash made from the resale of a player would be figured into youth school profit.

yeah. the number of slots is a variable because we keep changing it. for example, in C-league, i ran say 8-12 slots, sometimes as low as 6. there were also weeks i had 0. any ideas on how to work out an average?

I went back through my transfers. I noticed a lot of “retired player” tags. So, I can’t get any info on some of them. Also, I haven’t figured out how to find my old ys school coaches to measure wages, yet. But, of the ones I sold straight out of junior school, here are the numbers. The first number is what I sold him for. The second number is what I paid in youth school cost ($1k per week).

2009-03-21 Terrell Clark formidable 11 000 $ (21 000 $)
age: 17. 4 wk talent.
very good form, tragic tactical discipline

average stamina tragic keeper
tragic pace adequate defender
good technique adequate playmaker
hopeless passing good striker

2009-01-31 Salvatore Xander solid 8 250 $ (6 000 $)
(did not note his skill dist)
addtional cash from a re-sell: $4,000

2008-10-25 Trent Hetherington excellent 2 000 $ (30 000 $)
(did not note skill dist)

2008-07-12 Robert Fay solid 459 000 $ (6 000 $)
4 - 5 wk talent ys exit good age: 16
very good form, tragic tactical discipline

hopeless stamina tragic keeper
average pace hopeless defender
adequate technique average playmaker
poor passing weak striker

2008-06-07 J.D. Shelly formidable 663 375 $ (25 000 $)
age 17, youth talent 5.33
value: 113 000 $, wage: 1 550 $
very good form,

weak stamina hopeless keeper
excellent pace weak defender
hopeless technique tragic playmaker
weak passing striker excellent

A couple of other comments. There were 7 others I can see by name that I trained for various periods of time after promoting and then sold. And, there are 9 currently on my squad who came from my youth school.

I would add that I believe one or two good sales per year (aka Fay and Shelly above) will more than compensate for the total costs of the youth school.
(edited)

I dont think you should count the amount of money you get from continued resales of your players. The question I am asking, 'is this a cost effective and successful approach for a newbie' in c league. the resale monies may be, but more likelyare not a relevant amount at that time.
(edited)

why not just look at seasonal cost vs income

coach wage x16 + average # of seats x16 = cost

income is how much youd make if you immediately sold all the players after pulling (takes a bit of guesswork but you can get it in the ballpark). this is because the arguement is that you could just buy players just like ones you pulled instead of pulling them yourself