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Subject: National Team
If that is the case I don't blame Borkos. Reverting to forfeit instead of past tactic is a joke.
There was a tactic change around 60th min, the defensive setup has changed to low defence, so it is not a case of delted additional tactic
Fair enough, I was just explaining cometers post.
As it is not due to a changed tactic, then it is definitely a bug and should be replayed
As it is not due to a changed tactic, then it is definitely a bug and should be replayed
I doubt it will be replayed as I'd be almost entirely confident borkos screwed the tactics up.
I didn't
I don't even know why you'd bother changing tactic if we were drawing, it doesn't make sense when a draw is sufficient enough.
because the defenders are getting totally exhausted when they play very high, I changed the tactic to lower defence
Subbing Erdogan off for Fihaki as well as Barnes for Drum was perhaps the worst possible move you could have made bar subbing Elrich off. When defending with 9 players you can't take off your only 2 players that were creating any form of offense, it's stupidity
Drum has proven to be a good sub for Barnes in previous games, so I don't see your point here.
As for Fihaki, he isn't far off Erdogan, what he lacks is defence, but offensive skills - you'd be surprised :). Anyway we've been through this argument before...
I'm 90% positive there won't be any replay of the game, a real waste. We were doing quite good, Turkiye most probably wouldn't have scored anything in last 16min. Their offensive moves were always destroyed, though as usual they got a couple of situations after side defenders got the ball and run into the midfielders [which is understandable since they don't have high side skills and were placed very high].
A draw would've given us a WC start...
I didn't
I don't even know why you'd bother changing tactic if we were drawing, it doesn't make sense when a draw is sufficient enough.
because the defenders are getting totally exhausted when they play very high, I changed the tactic to lower defence
Subbing Erdogan off for Fihaki as well as Barnes for Drum was perhaps the worst possible move you could have made bar subbing Elrich off. When defending with 9 players you can't take off your only 2 players that were creating any form of offense, it's stupidity
Drum has proven to be a good sub for Barnes in previous games, so I don't see your point here.
As for Fihaki, he isn't far off Erdogan, what he lacks is defence, but offensive skills - you'd be surprised :). Anyway we've been through this argument before...
I'm 90% positive there won't be any replay of the game, a real waste. We were doing quite good, Turkiye most probably wouldn't have scored anything in last 16min. Their offensive moves were always destroyed, though as usual they got a couple of situations after side defenders got the ball and run into the midfielders [which is understandable since they don't have high side skills and were placed very high].
A draw would've given us a WC start...
Has that kind of thing been seen before? Sorely it's a bug. Even if you stuff something up with the tactics, they shouldn't just sit down in protest.
Oh well, bad luck I guess. Were pretty lucky up until that point.
Oh well, bad luck I guess. Were pretty lucky up until that point.
You should probably also submit this in the bugs forum
Ok then, as I can't see the orders, I can't be positive but I've only seen that happen when you ask for a tactic switch and that tactic is not set. It then gets confused and so all players play on the same position.
To prove this to yourself take a look at match orders for the next game and see if a tactic was selected. You would then have more grounds to complain :).
In regards to Drum, he doesn't have enough tech as a single striker or defense to create anything when you play 9 defensively. He's great when you have a more attacking set, but when you're relying on breaking the line he's not good enough.
As for Erdogan. Unless you have updated skills for Fihaki which is a possibility, excluding defense Erdogan has 14 skills more. That's not close in my books but whatever :p. Again Erdogan has more technique and defender to create breaks through the line and with a 9 man defense you needed something special as Turkiye used 5 defs themselves. I felt (and still do) that the substitution wasn't needed. If you have Fihaki's skills then update them on the NTDB as I'd clearly be interested to see if he's improved much.
To prove this to yourself take a look at match orders for the next game and see if a tactic was selected. You would then have more grounds to complain :).
In regards to Drum, he doesn't have enough tech as a single striker or defense to create anything when you play 9 defensively. He's great when you have a more attacking set, but when you're relying on breaking the line he's not good enough.
As for Erdogan. Unless you have updated skills for Fihaki which is a possibility, excluding defense Erdogan has 14 skills more. That's not close in my books but whatever :p. Again Erdogan has more technique and defender to create breaks through the line and with a 9 man defense you needed something special as Turkiye used 5 defs themselves. I felt (and still do) that the substitution wasn't needed. If you have Fihaki's skills then update them on the NTDB as I'd clearly be interested to see if he's improved much.
I don't know how did you come up with 14pts more for Erdogan if you don't count defence :p Fihaki has a pace+tech+pass+pm sumskill = 60 + outstanding striker :p
In that case Fihaki hasn't been updated in the NTDB. Update his skills then which was my other point. I'm making judgement calls based on what I see in the NTDB as it's the only way I'll have even a rough idea of skills.
Yeah, the NTDB is not really up to date, I have to put in the updates
would've done it earlier but I wanted to get current skills of players before I make the update, I'm a bit busy lately though so didn't have time for that :/
would've done it earlier but I wanted to get current skills of players before I make the update, I'm a bit busy lately though so didn't have time for that :/
Decent win against Ireland, though the game was pretty close.
At this moment we have all players without red cards/injuries for game against Turkiye, let's hope it stays this way. We have some form issues though, but there still are 2 form updates ahead of us so everything can change.
Now it's time to concentrate on Turkiye, it won't be easy to surprise them like the 1st time, but I have a couple of ideas left...:))
At this moment we have all players without red cards/injuries for game against Turkiye, let's hope it stays this way. We have some form issues though, but there still are 2 form updates ahead of us so everything can change.
Now it's time to concentrate on Turkiye, it won't be easy to surprise them like the 1st time, but I have a couple of ideas left...:))
Games not really worth commenting on. I don't really care if we lose trying to win by playing aggressively but I totally disapprove of parking the bus and losing. A good side will always find a way to score and it makes for an ugly game. Rubbish tactic and got what it deserved.
Last time this tactic gave us 1:1, so I wouldn't call it rubbish.
Also please let me know how would you play offensively considering Erdogan, Griffiths and Puca are out of form and we can't use Barnes because he is injured - and he is our only NT class striker.
Also please let me know how would you play offensively considering Erdogan, Griffiths and Puca are out of form and we can't use Barnes because he is injured - and he is our only NT class striker.
Last time this tactic gave us 1:1, so I wouldn't call it rubbish.
Slight correction there - was standing at 1:1, it didn't give us a 1:1 because there was still 20min to go and we were lucky to be at 1:1 and then you hashed the order (it wasn't system generated)
It's rubbish because these things usually don't work twice in a row for multiple reasons.
1) We didn't have as good a form winger as before
2) We didn't have as you say our only NT class striker (I tend to disagree about only but that's another thing again).
3) We were lucky last time, it takes a lot to be lucky again.
4) The opposition would not have been surprised 2nd time around and could have done something about it.
5) There is almost no point watching the game as it's really going to be a game played in 1 half.
Also please let me know how would you play offensively considering Erdogan, Griffiths and Puca are out of form and we can't use Barnes because he is injured - and he is our only NT class striker.
I didn't say we had to play offensively, I just said I'd prefer to have lost playing offensively then parking the bus and losing. I personally don't see the use in 9 men playing in defense for the entire 90min, 5 at the back should be sufficient, if it's not we're not cutting out the right areas. You're making a lot of excuses about not having players, we've had far worse to select from then what you've got at your disposal and we'll have worse to come in the next few seasons.
If you have 1 striker you consider that cuts it, when they're not available why persist with a lone striker (who you say isn't world class). Many a time if you're down on strikers using a 2nd option to help gather rebounds etc can negate that if you're willing to try.
A player can be out on form and still play and create chances. I've yet to see a game where they can't. At club level most deal with this every match, NT level is the same. If you don't have a better option you stick to what you have. The fact you didn't play Puca meant you had a decent enough substitute.
Again, I don't mind losing but if we're going to resort to parking the bus everytime we have 1-2 injuries/suspensions and come up against a better side then you'll lose my vote. Defensive and parking the bus are different. Defensive at least acknowledges that at some point players become more valuable further upfield.
Sometimes taking on a better team allows you to try something unusual. The match engine may have changed somewhat but the principle still exists.
Slight correction there - was standing at 1:1, it didn't give us a 1:1 because there was still 20min to go and we were lucky to be at 1:1 and then you hashed the order (it wasn't system generated)
It's rubbish because these things usually don't work twice in a row for multiple reasons.
1) We didn't have as good a form winger as before
2) We didn't have as you say our only NT class striker (I tend to disagree about only but that's another thing again).
3) We were lucky last time, it takes a lot to be lucky again.
4) The opposition would not have been surprised 2nd time around and could have done something about it.
5) There is almost no point watching the game as it's really going to be a game played in 1 half.
Also please let me know how would you play offensively considering Erdogan, Griffiths and Puca are out of form and we can't use Barnes because he is injured - and he is our only NT class striker.
I didn't say we had to play offensively, I just said I'd prefer to have lost playing offensively then parking the bus and losing. I personally don't see the use in 9 men playing in defense for the entire 90min, 5 at the back should be sufficient, if it's not we're not cutting out the right areas. You're making a lot of excuses about not having players, we've had far worse to select from then what you've got at your disposal and we'll have worse to come in the next few seasons.
If you have 1 striker you consider that cuts it, when they're not available why persist with a lone striker (who you say isn't world class). Many a time if you're down on strikers using a 2nd option to help gather rebounds etc can negate that if you're willing to try.
A player can be out on form and still play and create chances. I've yet to see a game where they can't. At club level most deal with this every match, NT level is the same. If you don't have a better option you stick to what you have. The fact you didn't play Puca meant you had a decent enough substitute.
Again, I don't mind losing but if we're going to resort to parking the bus everytime we have 1-2 injuries/suspensions and come up against a better side then you'll lose my vote. Defensive and parking the bus are different. Defensive at least acknowledges that at some point players become more valuable further upfield.
Sometimes taking on a better team allows you to try something unusual. The match engine may have changed somewhat but the principle still exists.
vs Turkey last year
Similar marks but completely different result. That was without Stewart,Stathakis,Libbesson,Griffiths, Barnes and Erdogan weren't as good as they are now. Whilst it wasn't offensive, it certainly wasn't parking the bus with 9 in defense.
Similar marks but completely different result. That was without Stewart,Stathakis,Libbesson,Griffiths, Barnes and Erdogan weren't as good as they are now. Whilst it wasn't offensive, it certainly wasn't parking the bus with 9 in defense.
From what I remember the same tactic made you fail against Slovensko in official game, so I'd put that win on account of Turkiye's tactic in that particular game...
Slight correction there - was standing at 1:1, it didn't give us a 1:1 because there was still 20min to go and we were lucky to be at 1:1 and then you hashed the order (it wasn't system generated)
of course it wasn't, you know better - even though greg wrote that it was a bug
It's rubbish because these things usually don't work twice in a row for multiple reasons.
1) We didn't have as good a form winger as before
2) We didn't have as you say our only NT class striker (I tend to disagree about only but that's another thing again).
3) We were lucky last time, it takes a lot to be lucky again.
4) The opposition would not have been surprised 2nd time around and could have done something about it.
5) There is almost no point watching the game as it's really going to be a game played in 1 half.
a. my aim is not to play interesting offensive footie, but to qualify for WC, therefore I don't care whether the way we play is nice or boring - it must be effective
b. no striker power, no winger power - so how on earth was I supposed to play offensively?
c. they used the same tactic, with slight tweaks - as did we. would've/could've - what matters is what happened...
I didn't say we had to play offensively, I just said I'd prefer to have lost playing offensively then parking the bus and losing.
I prefer to have a chance by playing defensively than to throw away the chance by playing open football...
we've had far worse to select from then what you've got at your disposal and we'll have worse to come in the next few seasons.
I don't think that in nearest 4 seasons there will be a weaker team. Defence is 25-27yo, strikers are 25-27yo, wingers are 25-27yo, gks are 22-25yo. central mids = Stathakis, O'Donoghue, Bowyer - still 3-5 seasons before they get old.
If you have 1 striker you consider that cuts it, when they're not available why persist with a lone striker (who you say isn't world class). Many a time if you're down on strikers using a 2nd option to help gather rebounds etc can negate that if you're willing to try.
look, do you really think that Drum would suddenly start dribbling through defenders if Leijer was on the field?
the main difference before this game and the last game against Turkiye was that this time Drum and Erdogan were in most cases unable to go past the defenders, even when they got a good ball. Drum is obviously weaker than Barnes and Erdogan lost his form. We were very limited in the offence and lining in another, even weaker striker wouldn't help much...
A player can be out on form and still play and create chances. I've yet to see a game where they can't. At club level most deal with this every match, NT level is the same. If you don't have a better option you stick to what you have. The fact you didn't play Puca meant you had a decent enough substitute.
I tried players without form in this season and I saw difference. If you don't see any, it's your issue. Just compare the way Erdogan was running and dribbling in 2 weeks ago and in last game.
(edited)
Slight correction there - was standing at 1:1, it didn't give us a 1:1 because there was still 20min to go and we were lucky to be at 1:1 and then you hashed the order (it wasn't system generated)
of course it wasn't, you know better - even though greg wrote that it was a bug
It's rubbish because these things usually don't work twice in a row for multiple reasons.
1) We didn't have as good a form winger as before
2) We didn't have as you say our only NT class striker (I tend to disagree about only but that's another thing again).
3) We were lucky last time, it takes a lot to be lucky again.
4) The opposition would not have been surprised 2nd time around and could have done something about it.
5) There is almost no point watching the game as it's really going to be a game played in 1 half.
a. my aim is not to play interesting offensive footie, but to qualify for WC, therefore I don't care whether the way we play is nice or boring - it must be effective
b. no striker power, no winger power - so how on earth was I supposed to play offensively?
c. they used the same tactic, with slight tweaks - as did we. would've/could've - what matters is what happened...
I didn't say we had to play offensively, I just said I'd prefer to have lost playing offensively then parking the bus and losing.
I prefer to have a chance by playing defensively than to throw away the chance by playing open football...
we've had far worse to select from then what you've got at your disposal and we'll have worse to come in the next few seasons.
I don't think that in nearest 4 seasons there will be a weaker team. Defence is 25-27yo, strikers are 25-27yo, wingers are 25-27yo, gks are 22-25yo. central mids = Stathakis, O'Donoghue, Bowyer - still 3-5 seasons before they get old.
If you have 1 striker you consider that cuts it, when they're not available why persist with a lone striker (who you say isn't world class). Many a time if you're down on strikers using a 2nd option to help gather rebounds etc can negate that if you're willing to try.
look, do you really think that Drum would suddenly start dribbling through defenders if Leijer was on the field?
the main difference before this game and the last game against Turkiye was that this time Drum and Erdogan were in most cases unable to go past the defenders, even when they got a good ball. Drum is obviously weaker than Barnes and Erdogan lost his form. We were very limited in the offence and lining in another, even weaker striker wouldn't help much...
A player can be out on form and still play and create chances. I've yet to see a game where they can't. At club level most deal with this every match, NT level is the same. If you don't have a better option you stick to what you have. The fact you didn't play Puca meant you had a decent enough substitute.
I tried players without form in this season and I saw difference. If you don't see any, it's your issue. Just compare the way Erdogan was running and dribbling in 2 weeks ago and in last game.
(edited)