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Subject: Diccionario español - 1919
Schooling is measured by the share of the relevant populations that was enrolled in primary, secondary or tertiary schooling. Argentina may have been rich, but it was not that well-educated. In 2000, Argentina was doing about as well as would be expected based on its education levels in 1900. Long-run national success is built on human capital, both because of the link between schooling and technology and because of the link between education and well-functioning democracy.
I will return to this link, and to the puzzle of Argentine exceptionalism, in a future post.
Y bueno lo que yo decia! eramos "ricos" pero habia mucha miseria, pobreza y poca educacion, por eso tipos como Peron, que trajeron a colacion eso, fueron importantes para el pais...
Ademas de la inestabilidad politica por la proscripcion del Peronismo que no permitio tene runa democracia estable, este yanqui piensa como yo :P
I will return to this link, and to the puzzle of Argentine exceptionalism, in a future post.
Y bueno lo que yo decia! eramos "ricos" pero habia mucha miseria, pobreza y poca educacion, por eso tipos como Peron, que trajeron a colacion eso, fueron importantes para el pais...
Ademas de la inestabilidad politica por la proscripcion del Peronismo que no permitio tene runa democracia estable, este yanqui piensa como yo :P
al no poder usar la libra Peron estatizo mucha sempresas inglesas, tomandolas como parte d epago creo
no se si viene a colacion de tu duda :P
no se si viene a colacion de tu duda :P
para mi si, EEUU estaba preocupaod pro la influencia de Peron en America, entonces cualquier esfuerzo que pudiera hacerse, no lo habrian escatimado.... ya sabemos como son los yanquis
La inestabilidad política es anterior a la proscripción. Te diría que surge en los años veinte y eclosiona en 1930.
Jejeje, como que no es muy objetivo el que escribio eso un toque partidario de Peron.
Todavia no lei el paper ese del muchacho, no se si lo voy a leer porque entiendo poco y nada. Lei los comentarios de la gente y hay uno que me parecio bastante acertado y hablando con conocimiento de causa.
OK as far as it goes, no doubt at all that education is key. However, more can be said:
Culture: I’ve worked in Argentina, and many other countries all over the world, and have been struck by the negative effect of “southern European” or “Mediterranean” or maybe even “Catholic” culture. These societies rely more on family and society and less on the individual, and tend to create governments that are more maternalistic — individuals look to the government more. (They also are more cynical about government, perhaps proving that they’re not completely stupid or crazy.) There is also the hispanic (and others’) tendency of machismo, pride, importance of appearances, etc. — “of course I won’t get down and wash the floor; that’s for lower-class people.” The Argentines are descended mostly from Italians and Spanish and have the worst of both cultures — the impracticality of the Italians and the lack of sense of humor or perspective or flexibility of the Spanish. (NB the Brazilians do not suffer from the latter, one of the reasons they are doing better.)
Peron: Argentina was doing fairly well until Peron, whose policies exaggerated the tendency to look for government to help (quoting a BA cab driver about 10 years ago, “We need a strong leader”), and also, by using urban workers as his political base, created policies that greatly, greatly exacerbated the natural economic conflict between the productive “pampa” economy (credit to Marcello Diamond for this term and analysis) and the uncompetitive urban industrial economy. Peron effectively taxed the former to pay for the latter, and to this day the country has been plagued by swings in policy that are relatively enormous compared to other countries, between low values of the currency that favor exporters (i.e. rural) and high values that favor the import-substituting manufacturers and their workers (i.e. urban). This instability has itself been a big barrier to growth and, even, political and social development.
— Joel Bergsman
(edited)
OK as far as it goes, no doubt at all that education is key. However, more can be said:
Culture: I’ve worked in Argentina, and many other countries all over the world, and have been struck by the negative effect of “southern European” or “Mediterranean” or maybe even “Catholic” culture. These societies rely more on family and society and less on the individual, and tend to create governments that are more maternalistic — individuals look to the government more. (They also are more cynical about government, perhaps proving that they’re not completely stupid or crazy.) There is also the hispanic (and others’) tendency of machismo, pride, importance of appearances, etc. — “of course I won’t get down and wash the floor; that’s for lower-class people.” The Argentines are descended mostly from Italians and Spanish and have the worst of both cultures — the impracticality of the Italians and the lack of sense of humor or perspective or flexibility of the Spanish. (NB the Brazilians do not suffer from the latter, one of the reasons they are doing better.)
Peron: Argentina was doing fairly well until Peron, whose policies exaggerated the tendency to look for government to help (quoting a BA cab driver about 10 years ago, “We need a strong leader”), and also, by using urban workers as his political base, created policies that greatly, greatly exacerbated the natural economic conflict between the productive “pampa” economy (credit to Marcello Diamond for this term and analysis) and the uncompetitive urban industrial economy. Peron effectively taxed the former to pay for the latter, and to this day the country has been plagued by swings in policy that are relatively enormous compared to other countries, between low values of the currency that favor exporters (i.e. rural) and high values that favor the import-substituting manufacturers and their workers (i.e. urban). This instability has itself been a big barrier to growth and, even, political and social development.
— Joel Bergsman
(edited)
they’re not completely stupid or crazy.
acertado? perdio seriedad cuando lei eso, es una perspectiva muy racista, se basa en cosas culturales totalmente subjetivas "tienen lo peor de", "son maternales " y demas bla bla bla
encasilla todo, asi se cae en lo simplista y no me gusta
otra cosa, cuando dicen que aca no hay cultura de trabajo, Argentina es el pais donde se trabaja mas horas por empleado en America Latina... salio un estudio hace un par de dias....
acertado? perdio seriedad cuando lei eso, es una perspectiva muy racista, se basa en cosas culturales totalmente subjetivas "tienen lo peor de", "son maternales " y demas bla bla bla
encasilla todo, asi se cae en lo simplista y no me gusta
otra cosa, cuando dicen que aca no hay cultura de trabajo, Argentina es el pais donde se trabaja mas horas por empleado en America Latina... salio un estudio hace un par de dias....
claro, pero no efue tan acentuada, fijate que antes de Peron, no habia guerrillas, que son basicamente lo que mas desestabilizo politicamente el pais, y las dictaduras noe ran tan sangrientas ya que no tenian un enemigo claro
La primera parte es mas una experiencia personal que relata, y por mas que duela en mi opinion es muy cierta.
pero tiene una postura racista, tira lo d ela cultura "meditarranea" y "catolica" es el clasico prejuicio de lso protestantes-sajones, que se creen mejores que los demas, si fuera por eso, Italia no seria rico, España no seria rico, Irlanda seria pobre, Francia tambien, no jodamos che
sino se caen en el analisis del gallego bruto, el italiano mafioso, el japones tintorero, el yanqui burro y el griego chiflado, no da, un poco de seriedad che
sino se caen en el analisis del gallego bruto, el italiano mafioso, el japones tintorero, el yanqui burro y el griego chiflado, no da, un poco de seriedad che
Y la segunda apunta mas a las decisiones politicas desacertadas.
este me parecio un post mas acertado
That research forgets a key dimension, the distribution of income. While Argentina might have been very rich in the 1900s, it was so in an extremely unequal way, just as several Gulf oil exporters are today (once you include their huge immigrant populations in the count). Much more so than the US in the same period.
Besides Argentina was very rich in nominal terms, as prices for its agricultural exports were then extremely high, in comparison with manufactures or other tradeable goods. In other words, it was an empty ball, filled if of anything, of extreme inequality. For example, while many immigrated there, over 70% of them left within 10 years of arriving, when comparable figures for the US are below 40%. Those are the root causes, instead of intermediate reasons, such as investment on education (governments in extremely unequal societies, anchored on fast-passing export booms rarely invest in education !!! ).
Such mix of boom and bust cycles, plus inequality would surely bring the populism later referred to.
Future contributions on Argentine economic history ought to be better based on data and not presumptions to be confirmed. Pity the NYT can fall for such low quality research.
That research forgets a key dimension, the distribution of income. While Argentina might have been very rich in the 1900s, it was so in an extremely unequal way, just as several Gulf oil exporters are today (once you include their huge immigrant populations in the count). Much more so than the US in the same period.
Besides Argentina was very rich in nominal terms, as prices for its agricultural exports were then extremely high, in comparison with manufactures or other tradeable goods. In other words, it was an empty ball, filled if of anything, of extreme inequality. For example, while many immigrated there, over 70% of them left within 10 years of arriving, when comparable figures for the US are below 40%. Those are the root causes, instead of intermediate reasons, such as investment on education (governments in extremely unequal societies, anchored on fast-passing export booms rarely invest in education !!! ).
Such mix of boom and bust cycles, plus inequality would surely bring the populism later referred to.
Future contributions on Argentine economic history ought to be better based on data and not presumptions to be confirmed. Pity the NYT can fall for such low quality research.
una pregunta para los que peinan canas o ya tiraron el peine... que han VIVIDO varias decadas en el pais... como lo ven en comparacion a decadas pasadas?? (jugara cafiero sokker?)
yo con mis veintitantos vivi mas o menos lucidamente los 90 y menos lucidamente ahora esta, pronto dejare los psicotropicos y el alcohol. pero veo mucho mejor al pais ahora que en los 90`s (los que se atrevan a decirme cristobal colon ironicamente les recuerdo que el turco saco mas votos que k en primera vuelta) y me da miedo pensar que sucederia hoy en esa misma situacion..
no se en los 80`s ahi ya no puedo opinar por experiencia propia.. seguro la pase bien si me cagaba encima y todo eso pero no recuerdo mucho.
yo con mis veintitantos vivi mas o menos lucidamente los 90 y menos lucidamente ahora esta, pronto dejare los psicotropicos y el alcohol. pero veo mucho mejor al pais ahora que en los 90`s (los que se atrevan a decirme cristobal colon ironicamente les recuerdo que el turco saco mas votos que k en primera vuelta) y me da miedo pensar que sucederia hoy en esa misma situacion..
no se en los 80`s ahi ya no puedo opinar por experiencia propia.. seguro la pase bien si me cagaba encima y todo eso pero no recuerdo mucho.
Para mí se equivoca en lo del sentido del humor, me parece que este muchacho mezcló los nombres de los países :P
A mí me preocupa lo mismo qiue a vos: la posibilidad de oscilar siemrpe entre lo mismo. Mi impresión (desde afuera, o sea, limitada) es que el discurso menemisto-noventero pued epegar d eneuvo entre la gente, encarnado en Macris o lo qeu sea... la seriedad, los aplausos de los paises serios... todo papel picado.. para que cuando reviente, vuevla a pegar la onda descamisado, basta de garcas de corbatita, vivir con lo neustro, afuera malo puto caca y hagan bien lo qeu hagan bien siempre la cagan con el "conmigo o contra mí", "soy la encarnación de cristo" y "después de mi, el diluvio". Y entonces vuelvan los garcas, etc, etc...
Me aprece tan absurdo... Y ni siquiera me gusta una de las opciones, o sea, no sería feliz ni el 50% del tiempo con ese país-péndulo :P
Me aprece tan absurdo... Y ni siquiera me gusta una de las opciones, o sea, no sería feliz ni el 50% del tiempo con ese país-péndulo :P