Subject: »[info] Dev Diary #76: Nothing is Certain Except Taxes

Its not easy to make good for big sokker countries, small one, mid ones. Maybe 12 teams in league is good solution for big leagues, but maybe we can leave the league 8 teams and do 12 on international level. Maybe we do 12 teams in top level (big countries in 2nd level also), so then we have different solution. We all need to fit somewhere to be satisfied, perfection is not possible, and in RL domestic leagues are somewhere 10 teams somewhere 20.

I agree with you.

Probably somebody mention it before already, but also for medium size countries as Croatia (100 users) first league with 12 teams would mean that top teams have extra 4 teams to beat easily. Team match rankings would go from 65-75 as it is now down to 60-75. And second leagues we have mostly from 55-65 now and in case of 12 teams we would go down to 40-60. Solution could be also to make only 2 instead 4 second divisions to make this differencies between teams in same league smaller, but this wouldn't suit bigger countries.

And also with adding teams into league we would have more and more teams that don't have reason to fight after half of season. Now it is not common to have secure status 2 rounds before the end (champion, 2-4, qualy or relagation), but with bigger leagues more teams would have secure status even on half of the season (example of mid table team which can't be champion, but also have to big advantage over teams which will go to qualification).

for both our countries would be better to have expansion levels 1-2-4-8 iso 1-4-16. Like you said for others maybe not, but we do have countries with different amount of levels, so maybe we can do different expansion, different number of teams in table and so on.

I have a question about the proposed new schedule and training system. Could you field all 10 players in training slots in one game to get them training? If so, the other 2-3 games per week would become meaningless for training, and you could even concede walkovers (or buy some very cheap players for those games, which essentially amounts to the same). In fact that could be the best option for teams in a rebuild who only want to train young players and don't care about success, because you'd reduce the risk of injuries. That seems like a serious flaw of the new system.

Also if there is a league cup for teams eliminated early from the national cup, I guess that means friendly leagues won't be possible anymore (which also removes a Plus feature)? It would be useful to have an easier way to schedule friendlies then, like automatically getting one by adding your team to a pool.

I have a question about the proposed new schedule and training system. Could you field all 10 players in training slots in one game to get them training?

Yes.

yes... it is system PLAY to WIN.... :DDDD

i will one match play for training.... so no to PLAY for WIN.

and trader will play only one match and other 2 must not play.

I have a question about the proposed new schedule and training system. Could you field all 10 players in training slots in one game to get them training? If so, the other 2-3 games per week would become meaningless for training, and you could even concede walkovers (or buy some very cheap players for those games, which essentially amounts to the same). In fact that could be the best option for teams in a rebuild who only want to train young players and don't care about success, because you'd reduce the risk of injuries. That seems like a serious flaw of the new system.

Rather not - main traning you get from official games, and official games will be most important - resigning from them will be rather a bad option for your club, you will get hard punishment at the level of sponsors and fan club. Of course you will be still able to do so if you want, but during the test we will make sure to make that kind of tactic rather less effective, than play to win.

Also if there is a league cup for teams eliminated early from the national cup, I guess that means friendly leagues won't be possible anymore (which also removes a Plus feature)? It would be useful to have an easier way to schedule friendlies then, like automatically getting one by adding your team to a pool.

They will be possible still, just in less weeks (so less teams) - you can still join that kind of competition after leaving league cup. And yes, you right, we will probably allow to schedule friendlies for all weeks in advance.

Okay, but all of this seems a little awkward and inconsistent. On the one hand you want to reward success and punish managers who play with a weaker team in competitive games. On the other hand you force them to do exactly that to get full training - even more than now since there will be fewer friendlies. You can argue there's supposed to be a challenge, but it will make Sokker even less realistic and is also bad from a gameplay psychology view - it creates more negative and less positive experiences for users.

It will also skew the competitions even more because some managers will play with their reserves in the national cup and some in the international one, so none of those will be particularly meaningful. The current system at least has some logic since you have 2 games per week and need both for training, so naturally you can play your first team in the league and younger trainees in friendlies or cup. Fewer friendlies and more competitions will make this rather messy.

I still think the best (and most realistic) solution would be having reserve team leagues, so all competitions would be meaningful since you could play with your best team. If you don't want managers to play with the same team in all competitions, you could introduce energy levels that make it necessary to rest players occasionally. Or alternatively, let the international cup have a smaller influence on fan mood so it would effectively replace friendlies. Most managers won't care much about an international cup anyway unless it's on the top level. Or otherwise allow managers to opt out of it.

+1

Okay, but all of this seems a little awkward and inconsistent. On the one hand you want to reward success and punish managers who play with a weaker team in competitive games. On the other hand you force them to do exactly that to get full training - even more than now since there will be fewer friendlies. You can argue there's supposed to be a challenge, but it will make Sokker even less realistic and is also bad from a gameplay psychology view - it creates more negative and less positive experiences for users.

It's all about final balance of training bonuses - official games will give you better training, but you must remember, that even without playing games basic training will be recived, friendlies will be less important, but also give another part of bonus.
It will be just a bit more meaningfull than now (most managers treat official game as same as a friendly - it's just need to play one full game for each trainee).

It will also skew the competitions even more because some managers will play with their reserves in the national cup and some in the international one, so none of those will be particularly meaningful. The current system at least has some logic since you have 2 games per week and need both for training, so naturally you can play your first team in the league and younger trainees in friendlies or cup. Fewer friendlies and more competitions will make this rather messy.

Not at all, because if you will skew competitions, you will be eliminated, and forced to use friendlies instead of offcial games, so it will be less effective - you will need to give your players more time in last remaining competition - league. So you will be rather motivated to play as long you can, to "save" all official games you can play.

I still think the best (and most realistic) solution would be having reserve team leagues, so all competitions would be meaningful since you could play with your best team. If you don't want managers to play with the same team in all competitions, you could introduce energy levels that make it necessary to rest players occasionally.

Some "energy" mechanism can be consider.
Reserve teams would be a revolutionary move, current training reform is really quite close to current one, you just will be able to train different possitions, not only one. We dont want to make it more complicated, at least for now.

You will be able still to plan friendlies in slots of official games when you will be eliminated from any cup - they will be a bit less effective, but still - basic training level + bonus from friendly - it's not a bad training. It's rather a medium one, effective, but it will be worth it to find some official minutes for your best prospects, to give them max.

@Raul you underestimate the power of NT communities anyone that trains such players is not interested in medium or 70 or 80 percent training even NT games are used to gain full training for such players so that is why solution for youngster player is needed

its great that they can get no bad training if not playing but that is not enough and most cases walk over will appear

Wait.

Most of users now have one official game, and one friendly in week.
Friendly is less efective than offical. So - it already works like that! Nothing really new about it!
We need to reduce importance of friendlies - because all players from training "slots" starts with basic training even without game.

So, just for example:
Basic traning, lets say - 60%.
Friendly: another 20%.
Official game 35%
(numbers are just a example)

vs. today:

basic training 0% - you dont gat any training without game
friendly game - 80%
official one - 95%.

It's pretty close for current system, and none of you have a problem with that.
Dont you try to keep your best talented players for official games?

And there is also NT bonus above of all.

we have problem with current system we play safe as you see :)
(edited)

Well, new system will be better for it imho.
Even if you will be eliminated - you will be able put all 10 players in friendly, they will recive basic training + first level of bonus, and then you will decide about best talented players to try to move them into first team too, to get max.

Sure, i understand your fear of injuries etc - but they will be adjusted, it's different problem.

cross fingers remove injuries at all and everybody will be happy :)