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Subject: [GD] Most expected changes
the discussion is pointless when it is based on totally wrong presumptions and inability to change them.
like yours, I agree ;)
but I still try to explain for those who know how to listen.
Arcade bug need to be fixed. We are all agree.
After that you can do exactly the same wild trading as now, with the only difference that in turn you will have to play 1 or 2 friendly match to the players "meat for the market"... ok just little bit less "wild training" (maybe slow it down a little) but absolutely not enough to balance the trading system IMHO. to balance the system need some of solutions proposed on "trading reform thread", not only by me (there are at the moment 5 points and i proposed only 2), like tax reselling, like max number of players, like minum period of stay for players, like max number of buy or sell per week etc, etc....
only Devs will be able to decide how to balance and whether to do it.
(edited)
like yours, I agree ;)
but I still try to explain for those who know how to listen.
Arcade bug need to be fixed. We are all agree.
After that you can do exactly the same wild trading as now, with the only difference that in turn you will have to play 1 or 2 friendly match to the players "meat for the market"... ok just little bit less "wild training" (maybe slow it down a little) but absolutely not enough to balance the trading system IMHO. to balance the system need some of solutions proposed on "trading reform thread", not only by me (there are at the moment 5 points and i proposed only 2), like tax reselling, like max number of players, like minum period of stay for players, like max number of buy or sell per week etc, etc....
only Devs will be able to decide how to balance and whether to do it.
(edited)
I don't think 2/ weeks is enough, because it allow to buy and sell only to create money by market knowledge (eg: buying at low traffic hours and selling in the evening, or buying at end of the season and selling at beginning of the new season)
I (personal opinion) think that there is a choice to make: allowing daytrading (and trading without training) or not.
I prefer a long minimum term of holding a player: half season. +
Everybody will buy only players needed for medium-long term (as everything in sokker should be).
I (personal opinion) think that there is a choice to make: allowing daytrading (and trading without training) or not.
I prefer a long minimum term of holding a player: half season. +
Everybody will buy only players needed for medium-long term (as everything in sokker should be).
And I propose this to stop all the evil wild traders:
minimal term of holding a player: 1 season
maximal players in squad: 25
maximal transfers per season: 5 sales + 5 purchases
introducing robots: you set the price and it will buy player for you
Show Players' market value table which will tell you the market price of a player by comparing with similar players, so you know what price you should order the robot
automatic TPA for every player that goes 10% over or under the players market value
Full compensation if you player goes under market price
Direct selling of your players for the market value to anyone
Reselling tax:
1 season in a team - 15%
2 seasons - 14%
3 seasons - 13%
4 seasons - 12%
5 seasons - 11%
6 seasons - 10%
7 seasons - 9%
8 seasons - 8%
9 seasons - 7%
10 seasons - 6%
11 seasons - 5%
12 seasons - 4%
13 seasons - 3%
14 seasons - 2%
15 seasons - 1%
16+ seasons - tax free
minimal term of holding a player: 1 season
maximal players in squad: 25
maximal transfers per season: 5 sales + 5 purchases
introducing robots: you set the price and it will buy player for you
Show Players' market value table which will tell you the market price of a player by comparing with similar players, so you know what price you should order the robot
automatic TPA for every player that goes 10% over or under the players market value
Full compensation if you player goes under market price
Direct selling of your players for the market value to anyone
Reselling tax:
1 season in a team - 15%
2 seasons - 14%
3 seasons - 13%
4 seasons - 12%
5 seasons - 11%
6 seasons - 10%
7 seasons - 9%
8 seasons - 8%
9 seasons - 7%
10 seasons - 6%
11 seasons - 5%
12 seasons - 4%
13 seasons - 3%
14 seasons - 2%
15 seasons - 1%
16+ seasons - tax free
minimal term of holding a player: 1 season
maximal players in squad: 25
maximal transfers per season: 5 sales + 5 purchases
introducing robots: you set the price and it will buy player for you
Show Players' market value table which will tell you the market price of a player by comparing with similar players, so you know what price you should order the robot
automatic TPA for every player that goes 10% over or under the players market value
Full compensation if you player goes under market price
Direct selling of your players for the market value to anyone
Reselling tax:
1 season in a team - 15%
2 seasons - 14%
3 seasons - 13%
4 seasons - 12%
5 seasons - 11%
6 seasons - 10%
7 seasons - 9%
8 seasons - 8%
9 seasons - 7%
10 seasons - 6%
11 seasons - 5%
12 seasons - 4%
13 seasons - 3%
14 seasons - 2%
15 seasons - 1%
16+ seasons - tax free
-1, there must be a control but these are very drastic measures and most of them without sense.
(edited)
maximal players in squad: 25
maximal transfers per season: 5 sales + 5 purchases
introducing robots: you set the price and it will buy player for you
Show Players' market value table which will tell you the market price of a player by comparing with similar players, so you know what price you should order the robot
automatic TPA for every player that goes 10% over or under the players market value
Full compensation if you player goes under market price
Direct selling of your players for the market value to anyone
Reselling tax:
1 season in a team - 15%
2 seasons - 14%
3 seasons - 13%
4 seasons - 12%
5 seasons - 11%
6 seasons - 10%
7 seasons - 9%
8 seasons - 8%
9 seasons - 7%
10 seasons - 6%
11 seasons - 5%
12 seasons - 4%
13 seasons - 3%
14 seasons - 2%
15 seasons - 1%
16+ seasons - tax free
-1, there must be a control but these are very drastic measures and most of them without sense.
(edited)
I note with regret that in any post and any topic you tend to turn it into a `` I want mine to be implemented ''. Is there really a firm will to block, slow down the game even more so as not to be overcome?
As already mentioned, to trade you need:
- ability to select the players and give them a value, on which you will then have to earn.
- have time, but it's not the first thing to keep at bay.
-follow the market.
- train that player in the skil you are training and sell it. This can happen in the short, but also wide range.
- In addition, there are tight controls by the Admin, which often end up with penalties, sometimes even too severe. Even higher.
Again, taxes for players under 23 are 8%, so tell us that often you also pay 4% of the auction base and the profit? It is not as broad as some think. Allow me also to add, that freedom of action in both real life and in the game should be left.
As already mentioned, to trade you need:
- ability to select the players and give them a value, on which you will then have to earn.
- have time, but it's not the first thing to keep at bay.
-follow the market.
- train that player in the skil you are training and sell it. This can happen in the short, but also wide range.
- In addition, there are tight controls by the Admin, which often end up with penalties, sometimes even too severe. Even higher.
Again, taxes for players under 23 are 8%, so tell us that often you also pay 4% of the auction base and the profit? It is not as broad as some think. Allow me also to add, that freedom of action in both real life and in the game should be left.
and all football players shall be amateurs. You remind me of Old Ethonians.
Yeh, right .... perfect comment in a discussion about stopping daytraiders ....
Yeh, right .... perfect comment in a discussion about stopping daytraiders ....
You know what is interesting? You comment the quality of my comment in a discussion by replying to a post with zero information value (I know it is garbage; I apologize for an argument foul and I delete it) and you completely omit the one where I tried to explain all my thoughts about day trading and TPA.
2020-04-21 01:30:30
slavista to Charles Hill
The desire for the profit is the very core of the market system.
Managers in real life must always think about profit to keep the club alive and to achieve goals.
If they receive extraordinary offer, they will sell their player even after a season or even half a season. (that doesnt mean that this should be restriction in sokker. Player in real life can be injured for half a season or whole season - that would be 56-112 days of injury in sokker - or he can even decide to end his career - do you want this in sokker? the game must be fun, not a real life simulator).
In Czech Republic we have only very little money from TV rights and sponsors. Whole economic existence of teams in first division is based on profit from players sales and for few top teams also profit from european cups which is highly irregular. That is why the best and most promising players often leave the club, because the club cannot afford to miss the opportunity to sell them for a good offer.
In other words, young players are being bought with the intention of selling them for big money. They are sometimes willing to transfer very soon if they feel they will have a good conditions in a new club. But again, this is just a game. Player here cannot say that he doesnt want to go to the buyer because he plays 4th division only. Highest bid wins.
I am against regular daytrading in terms of regularly selling players in just matter of days or two weeks. But sometimes you get an opportunity to make a fast profit and this is perfectly right. And to make sure this is not repeated on very regular basis but only rare occassion, there is already limitation rule, that on normal occassion works perfectly. Show me a single team you would call a daytrader that ruins the game (as you say) who doesnt play arcade matches. Good luck with searching.
About TPA. As it was mentioned, the nature of market system is about different prices for similar players. Sometimes players go for big bargain, sometimes they go are big robberies. That is perfectly normal. The work for admins is to recognize when there was a cheating involved. And this must always be judged case by case, never automatically.
(edited)
2020-04-21 01:30:30
slavista to Charles Hill
The desire for the profit is the very core of the market system.
Managers in real life must always think about profit to keep the club alive and to achieve goals.
If they receive extraordinary offer, they will sell their player even after a season or even half a season. (that doesnt mean that this should be restriction in sokker. Player in real life can be injured for half a season or whole season - that would be 56-112 days of injury in sokker - or he can even decide to end his career - do you want this in sokker? the game must be fun, not a real life simulator).
In Czech Republic we have only very little money from TV rights and sponsors. Whole economic existence of teams in first division is based on profit from players sales and for few top teams also profit from european cups which is highly irregular. That is why the best and most promising players often leave the club, because the club cannot afford to miss the opportunity to sell them for a good offer.
In other words, young players are being bought with the intention of selling them for big money. They are sometimes willing to transfer very soon if they feel they will have a good conditions in a new club. But again, this is just a game. Player here cannot say that he doesnt want to go to the buyer because he plays 4th division only. Highest bid wins.
I am against regular daytrading in terms of regularly selling players in just matter of days or two weeks. But sometimes you get an opportunity to make a fast profit and this is perfectly right. And to make sure this is not repeated on very regular basis but only rare occassion, there is already limitation rule, that on normal occassion works perfectly. Show me a single team you would call a daytrader that ruins the game (as you say) who doesnt play arcade matches. Good luck with searching.
About TPA. As it was mentioned, the nature of market system is about different prices for similar players. Sometimes players go for big bargain, sometimes they go are big robberies. That is perfectly normal. The work for admins is to recognize when there was a cheating involved. And this must always be judged case by case, never automatically.
(edited)
The problems are the tons of millions money sleeping in clubs and less and less valuable players on the market
The money part is absolutely a problem. Every week someone makes a profit new money enters the game, and without spending it it keeps building up. As if someone is constantely printing new money. And because there are many rich clubs but many more not too rich clubs, there is no real inflation.
And more valuable players would not solve the problem. Rich clubs often have the best juniors, so money will be moved from side to side between rich(er) clubs, it still not leaves the game.
Money should be leaving this game in some way. Now it is wages and stadium, but that's about it when it comes to expansive costs. But it's not enough when profit is still made each week and new money enters the game.
A solution would be to add more things to the game that cost money, for example stadium improvements (from cheap to very expansive), that could have a possitive effect on (low) supporters mood. Or possitive effect on other things. But there has to be a reason to spend a lot of money to buy it. (Cheap: basic sound system or small stadium lights. Very expansive: a large supportershome)
(edited)
The money part is absolutely a problem. Every week someone makes a profit new money enters the game, and without spending it it keeps building up. As if someone is constantely printing new money. And because there are many rich clubs but many more not too rich clubs, there is no real inflation.
And more valuable players would not solve the problem. Rich clubs often have the best juniors, so money will be moved from side to side between rich(er) clubs, it still not leaves the game.
Money should be leaving this game in some way. Now it is wages and stadium, but that's about it when it comes to expansive costs. But it's not enough when profit is still made each week and new money enters the game.
A solution would be to add more things to the game that cost money, for example stadium improvements (from cheap to very expansive), that could have a possitive effect on (low) supporters mood. Or possitive effect on other things. But there has to be a reason to spend a lot of money to buy it. (Cheap: basic sound system or small stadium lights. Very expansive: a large supportershome)
(edited)
Day traiding existed way before arcade matches, so only solving that will not solve a thing.
I can repeat my arguments again why I think day traiding should be stopped ASAP, yesterday if possible. But you don't agree, and I don't agree with your arguments so we can go on and on. That is a bit pointless, for both of us.
And often, I'm not saying this to you as I can't look you in the eyes, but often when someone tells the other why not, it makes the other more stiff and more and more sure of his/her right. Because of that the open discussion has ended and it becomes 2 monologues.
To prevent that from happening, sometimes the best is to agree to disagree :)
I can repeat my arguments again why I think day traiding should be stopped ASAP, yesterday if possible. But you don't agree, and I don't agree with your arguments so we can go on and on. That is a bit pointless, for both of us.
And often, I'm not saying this to you as I can't look you in the eyes, but often when someone tells the other why not, it makes the other more stiff and more and more sure of his/her right. Because of that the open discussion has ended and it becomes 2 monologues.
To prevent that from happening, sometimes the best is to agree to disagree :)
Day traiding existed way before arcade matches, so only solving that will not solve a thing.
of course ;)
of course ;)
(1)day trading and (2)excess of money are separate problems
1) day trading is a problema only for SOME manger (me for example!) which depends on the rules and the market
2) excess of money is a problem for the player's prices (an so for everyone), which depends on the macro economic excess of revenues compared to expenses in sokker (caused first by stadium prices)
1) day trading is a problema only for SOME manger (me for example!) which depends on the rules and the market
2) excess of money is a problem for the player's prices (an so for everyone), which depends on the macro economic excess of revenues compared to expenses in sokker (caused first by stadium prices)
I also noticed that the wildest traders always set a starting selling price when they resell their buy in order to be sure to make a profit. Ok this is not working all the time and there is a tax, but many managers don't follow the TL market or don't have time and they just bid on this starting price because they need a player. We could maybe disable the option to set a starting price....
And setting a max squad limit is not a bad idea, just look at the the guy who ask us to not bid this player :) he has 109 players in his team... ok not all for trade but still... Same for the italian guy with 45 players, most of them for trade.
But both use the arcade bug so I agree with Slavista this is the first thing to fix and let's see if this works and if you need further measures...
And setting a max squad limit is not a bad idea, just look at the the guy who ask us to not bid this player :) he has 109 players in his team... ok not all for trade but still... Same for the italian guy with 45 players, most of them for trade.
But both use the arcade bug so I agree with Slavista this is the first thing to fix and let's see if this works and if you need further measures...
Where does the excess of money "idea" come from? Unless you do daytrading you cannot have excess of money i barely come even every season, mostly not.
there's an excess of money in the game, not in your single account..
look at inflation in player prices, that is an indicator of it.
look at inflation in player prices, that is an indicator of it.
"Farming" too. An old club can win NOTHING but training youngs, sell, buy new youngs, sell ... again again; you dont need to be really active and wining things for excess of money :-p
Right. Less offers in the market but less buyers/users demand too, the market should not get this inflation just by offer/demand. it's a sign that a lot of cash is... turning :-)