Subpage under development, new version coming soon!
Subject: [change] Visibility of the skills of the U21 and NT players
slamtam to
All
Updated: 31th may 2020
POLL: https://sokker.org/forum_topic/ID_forum/63355/ID_topic/3448048
This topic has not been addressed much elsewhere, but it is my intention to address it centrally here in this thread. This has the advantage that it is easier for the DEV's to discuss this topic and see the line of argumentation.
Already in many online games like Sokker it is standard that the ability of the players of a U21 or NT team is visible. Why this would make sense?
Pro
- You no longer have to write to the owner and literally pray for the skills. This is a laborious step
- A better organisation of the U21 and NT team is possible. You can compare the skills and keep the databases very up-to-date.
- You could now view the skills of the players at bot clubs and decide whether the player really brings something to the U21 or NT team.
Contra
- Owners can no longer defend themselves. But does it need this? (here you would have to implement advantages, like taking over a part of the salary in case of injuries etc., as I once suggested somewhere, but this is really a different topic and should be discussed in another thread)
- A crass minority rejects such ideas because the skills should belong only to the club owners.
------------------------------------------------------
Update
a large majority is in favor. One of the main reasons is that it is much easier for the U21 and NT to plan this. Querying many skills leads to a loss of time. In other comparable online games like Sokker (like Hattrick, Profurgol, Buzzerbeater) the skills are visible and that didn't harm the game at all.
A small minority is against it and as I noticed, there are two main reasons:
1) If the skills were visible then there would be no communication. This is a false assumption. Communication is still important and that will not change.
2) Some managers don't want to see their players in the NT (in the U21 this problem is much smaller) because their players can get injured. Here, solutions have already been worked out (no injury for the NT players during an NT mission or the wages of the injured players are taken over).
To make it clear once again:
The visibility of the skills does not harm the game, but it improves the game. There are well-organized teams like Czech Republic, Germany, Hungary or Croatia, but this is because they also have many scouts or people who help. But in other nations the interest is so small that only the U21 or NT coach has to work alone. Despite the database it is a huge work to query everything. The quality of the weaker nations could improve and the big nations will not have to suffer any disadvantage.
Votation (consultative, not representativ at all) (Last update: 6th may 2020, 00:17)
sviktorov YES
slavista NO
DON SAL YES
Woody NO
Krcko Oraščić YES
sheep YES
juytt NO
Marco_16 YES
Marchesi Ciro YES
DECHO YES
Damien2a NO
Signore dei pupazzi YES
clarom YES
kiksan40 YES
el pupe NO
rapelo NO
cranber YES
Jurro YES
KautukP YES
achmid YES
Behmen YES
Re_Ietto YES
Sasuke NO
valsimot YES
slamtam YES
Terrion NO
18 YES, 8 NO
(edited)
(edited)
POLL: https://sokker.org/forum_topic/ID_forum/63355/ID_topic/3448048
This topic has not been addressed much elsewhere, but it is my intention to address it centrally here in this thread. This has the advantage that it is easier for the DEV's to discuss this topic and see the line of argumentation.
Already in many online games like Sokker it is standard that the ability of the players of a U21 or NT team is visible. Why this would make sense?
Pro
- You no longer have to write to the owner and literally pray for the skills. This is a laborious step
- A better organisation of the U21 and NT team is possible. You can compare the skills and keep the databases very up-to-date.
- You could now view the skills of the players at bot clubs and decide whether the player really brings something to the U21 or NT team.
Contra
- Owners can no longer defend themselves. But does it need this? (here you would have to implement advantages, like taking over a part of the salary in case of injuries etc., as I once suggested somewhere, but this is really a different topic and should be discussed in another thread)
- A crass minority rejects such ideas because the skills should belong only to the club owners.
------------------------------------------------------
Update
a large majority is in favor. One of the main reasons is that it is much easier for the U21 and NT to plan this. Querying many skills leads to a loss of time. In other comparable online games like Sokker (like Hattrick, Profurgol, Buzzerbeater) the skills are visible and that didn't harm the game at all.
A small minority is against it and as I noticed, there are two main reasons:
1) If the skills were visible then there would be no communication. This is a false assumption. Communication is still important and that will not change.
2) Some managers don't want to see their players in the NT (in the U21 this problem is much smaller) because their players can get injured. Here, solutions have already been worked out (no injury for the NT players during an NT mission or the wages of the injured players are taken over).
To make it clear once again:
The visibility of the skills does not harm the game, but it improves the game. There are well-organized teams like Czech Republic, Germany, Hungary or Croatia, but this is because they also have many scouts or people who help. But in other nations the interest is so small that only the U21 or NT coach has to work alone. Despite the database it is a huge work to query everything. The quality of the weaker nations could improve and the big nations will not have to suffer any disadvantage.
Votation (consultative, not representativ at all) (Last update: 6th may 2020, 00:17)
sviktorov YES
slavista NO
DON SAL YES
Woody NO
Krcko Oraščić YES
sheep YES
juytt NO
Marco_16 YES
Marchesi Ciro YES
DECHO YES
Damien2a NO
Signore dei pupazzi YES
clarom YES
kiksan40 YES
el pupe NO
rapelo NO
cranber YES
Jurro YES
KautukP YES
achmid YES
Behmen YES
Re_Ietto YES
Sasuke NO
valsimot YES
slamtam YES
Terrion NO
18 YES, 8 NO
(edited)
(edited)
Addendum:
However, there is a potential for abuse if the U21 or NT coach can see the skills of a nation. Ideas are invited on how to fight against this potential for abuse.
For example, if a kind of team spirit is introduced in the U21 and NT. If you call too many new players into the selection and dismiss them, the team spirit suffers and the team will perform worse than usual.
This is just an idea. More ideas are welcome.
However, there is a potential for abuse if the U21 or NT coach can see the skills of a nation. Ideas are invited on how to fight against this potential for abuse.
For example, if a kind of team spirit is introduced in the U21 and NT. If you call too many new players into the selection and dismiss them, the team spirit suffers and the team will perform worse than usual.
This is just an idea. More ideas are welcome.
Yeah this would pretty much need some other upgrades in terms of NT, so that having a player there is actually profitable.
-1 I am strongly against
Reasons why Against:
1, It was always fun for me to scout the players. Receiving messages with actualized skills of players was almost equally satisfying as watching my own Thursday training. If I was still NT coach, I would feel horrible if this change happened.
2, Good national team coach communicates with players owners, anyway. If you want to have a strong national team in the long term, you have to coordinate players' needs with their training. That's the reason why Czech U21 was so strong for so many seasons. Because the NT staff handled this perfectly.
3, It separates good NT coaches from bad ones. It requires some effort. If you cannot do this or give the job to scouts, you should not apply to be the NT coach.
4, It would give you an unfair advantage to see the skills of all players of that nation in your country. Especially if you were coaching the national team of your nation. - This is questionable because some propose options for managers to choose the visibility of their players' skills on their own.
5, yes, over the years I had a problem in communication with some users who didn't respond or who didn't want their player to play in NT. But that is part of the game and it was a small minority. I think that idea of visibility of the skills comes from peoples' laziness. Normally it is enough to update the database and send messages just once per several weeks.
Reasons why Against:
1, It was always fun for me to scout the players. Receiving messages with actualized skills of players was almost equally satisfying as watching my own Thursday training. If I was still NT coach, I would feel horrible if this change happened.
2, Good national team coach communicates with players owners, anyway. If you want to have a strong national team in the long term, you have to coordinate players' needs with their training. That's the reason why Czech U21 was so strong for so many seasons. Because the NT staff handled this perfectly.
3, It separates good NT coaches from bad ones. It requires some effort. If you cannot do this or give the job to scouts, you should not apply to be the NT coach.
4, It would give you an unfair advantage to see the skills of all players of that nation in your country. Especially if you were coaching the national team of your nation. - This is questionable because some propose options for managers to choose the visibility of their players' skills on their own.
5, yes, over the years I had a problem in communication with some users who didn't respond or who didn't want their player to play in NT. But that is part of the game and it was a small minority. I think that idea of visibility of the skills comes from peoples' laziness. Normally it is enough to update the database and send messages just once per several weeks.
I will help you with the scouting if you need to, no problem :)
having skills visible will help update in db with tools manual work vs automated work common
you still need to advise how the player need to be trained and communicate and better that to be on time than its to late
so i always welcome scouts help so you are welcome
one thing agree im lazy on that one not i do not like it but mot much time
you still need to advise how the player need to be trained and communicate and better that to be on time than its to late
so i always welcome scouts help so you are welcome
one thing agree im lazy on that one not i do not like it but mot much time
For me, the visibility of skills is a top priority for managers who love this aspect of the game!
Too many managers are indifferent and often oppose nation interests!
In order to safeguard the interests of a club team from the injury of a player during a national team match, a cash allowance could be established!
Too many managers are indifferent and often oppose nation interests!
In order to safeguard the interests of a club team from the injury of a player during a national team match, a cash allowance could be established!
> For example, if a kind of team spirit is introduced in the U21 and NT. If you call too many new players into the selection and dismiss them, the team spirit suffers and the team will perform worse than usual.
As someone stated in other thread, it could be implemented a specific team-work for the NTs, which would work the way you describe independently from the club team-work
As someone stated in other thread, it could be implemented a specific team-work for the NTs, which would work the way you describe independently from the club team-work
-1
i think the coach or scouts give sk mail to team owners to see skills is better to create also something good for both.
i think the coach or scouts give sk mail to team owners to see skills is better to create also something good for both.
Unfortunately mister is not like that and I tell you with my experience of 25 seasons as Coach and Scout, too many managers hinder the work of the national team coaches!
I don't lack charisma and leadership, I am specialized in the construction of DBs but after all these seasons I have lost the patience to contact managers who are against regardless!
with some other changes in NT functionality (injuries) they might change their minds
I am undecided on the issue, but rather against it
although I have never been coach, but I think it must be fun to scout players and discover some kind of stars
also if You are unsure about some player You may gamble and set him as a defender for example and it will pay off or not which would be also fun
I dont think that majority dont give You skills, I think there arent many managers like that and it;s their decision in fact, because they want protect the players the paid for
I think You could focus instead on finding the reason why they dont want to give skills and are not letting You use their players in NT and try to find the kind of solution to the problem which would cause them to be helpful
I am undecided on the issue, but rather against it
although I have never been coach, but I think it must be fun to scout players and discover some kind of stars
also if You are unsure about some player You may gamble and set him as a defender for example and it will pay off or not which would be also fun
I dont think that majority dont give You skills, I think there arent many managers like that and it;s their decision in fact, because they want protect the players the paid for
I think You could focus instead on finding the reason why they dont want to give skills and are not letting You use their players in NT and try to find the kind of solution to the problem which would cause them to be helpful