Subject: [change] Visibility of the skills of the U21 and NT players

The easiest and most uncomplicated way would be to make the skills visible. (...)why not in Sokker?

Sokker is different, and many of us are thankful for this. "Why not like the others?" is not really a great argument.
But if the question is visible skills for all that's another question, topic, and general discussion, not SPECIFIC to NT.


"It's not about making the NT and U21 coaches kings. (...) The damage of abuse is comparatively very small."
"we don't necessarily have to share it."

Thats why i use the term "kings". kings never think about what is fair or unfair, thats not a question.
Once again if you cross this line, users like @Sasuke will ever protest and for good reason : why the hell NT coach can see skills and not US !?. Removing some right, freedom and equality in profit of a "simple solution" and lille damage will never stop protest.

We can argue that's just game, not a big 'political/philosophy' thing, im totally agree! But we can argue that's not YOUR game, kings! 1-1 draw game, no win.

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The optional way i suggest is not the simplest solution, but simple AND fair :
Getting an option to explicitly NOT showing skills to NT (a button to check in user profil fo ex.), OR by default NT coach can get visible skills. That's not a perfect, i KNOW, but as NT coaches we all know that's a better comfortable solution than actually.

So now...
1) we continue to discuss about what is right or wrong for NT users or all users ?? As i said, 1-1, positions will never change...
2) we have any better alternative solutions ? Ok fine...
3) can we find a consensual solution in a controversial topic? And finally show something to the devs...
(edited)

The damage of abuse is comparatively very small

based on what ?, how did you ponder that?



Do I have to scout this player? Watch his games? Is he fast enough? Can he defend? This procedure costs an enormous amount of time and this time would have been better spent elsewhere.

The risks of the trade ....


It is part of assuming responsibility for managing the national team, obviously it has to be someone with enough time available, shouldn't be an excuse


Also, you have talked about: Appointment of scouts (through official channels), on another topic related to "Reforms NT and U21"

that I suppose they will be also be voyeurs of the abilities of the players (more transgression to the owners)

Sokker is different, and many of us are thankful for this. "Why not like the others?" is not really a great argument.
But if the question is visible skills for all that's another question, topic, and general discussion, not SPECIFIC to NT.

totally agree (with this and everything you said in general)


i am starting to have the (very personal) impression that they want to manipulate and force this topic either way in favor of their idea of the skills visible to the NT .....

I'm not using terms like manipulation here. I'd be careful about that.

The facts are as follows: A very large minority, like you, is against it. No matter what it is and offer no basis for negotiation (that's ok, so there was, there is and there will be). We have given this minority a platform. But too much. The attention of the large minority is disproportionate to the attention of the desire of the large majority.

But I offer transparency here and I have noted down and summarized the most important pro and contra arguments that can be found in the first post of this thread. Should I have forgotten anything, please let me know. Therefore I find terms like manipulation a bit harsh and too hard. Of course, a large majority of the people who participated in this thread would like to see a review by the developers of the game.

They dont manipulate ^^

They just dont understand the reason why, because they are on a NT side point of view (many NT managers here...) it s (unfortunately) a human natural reaction, for all of us.

But we can find compromise and trying to deal with this. so @Sasuke : is my solution is ok for you ? that could be a first step in one side :-)

A very large minority

jajajaja you use questionable (and convenients) absolutisms, like did King-Karl respond to you, at the time: "very poor assessment! if of 10k you agree 20 you have the plural :O "


for that kind of tactics is I mention that there may be some manipulation (clearly you are one the promoter of the controversial idea)



The attention of the large minority is disproportionate to the attention of the desire of the large majority.

ohhhhh my little king, sorry (again with manipulated absolutisms), sorry for annoying the gigantic and overwhelming crowd (20-30 users representing the entire game) that has expressed support for this idea, certainly! also because that's the kind of that argument that justifies we always apply the dictatorship of the ""overwhelming majority"".... no matter if it's an unfair idea

@Sasuke : is my solution is ok for you ? that could be a first step in one side :-)

I like your solution, it is much fairer and maintains the respectful and voluntary treatment between owners and NT and makes communication easier

good lord ^^ one step. :-) let's see now whats happen on the other side...

How CT changes little to know more or less the skills of a player because I can already derive them from the value, from the statistics ect
The coach needs to know the correct skills because in sokker it is often the details that make the difference !!!

I also believe that in this topic the majority, at least of the CT, have expressed themselves in favor of the visibility of the skills!

So the discussion seems to have come to its conclusion!

I hope Raul reads and considers the interesis and enjoyment of all game users in the right way!

I think NTs are a very important part of the game because they involve the community

One of the goals of the NT as a community is getting the national young players and trainning them properly, it's a team work. If the players finish in a stranger club, there's a risk that the owner doesn't meet the desires of success of the NT. He might follow a training system that doesn't benefit the NT or even ignore completely the requirements from the NT coach about the progress of the player

But I think it's a risk we need to live with, because the essence of the feelings that the NT bring to us is precisely in the difficulties involved to make a good team able to win the World Cup. If we make it easy so that the best players are automatically put in the starting 11, it would lose the interest of the community

So my vote is -1

Read my posts more carefully and you will find my answers there instead of making fun of others here or spamming. I have recorded your opinion here and included it in the first post of this thread. There is nothing more to add.

utterances of you no new new noteworthy information to this topic I will not react to it any more. I hope you could enjoy this attention ;).

This is right! :)

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There are 20 yes voters and 6 no-voters, also over 75% of the users here in this topic are for the visibility of the skills.


I count more than 6 no-voters, many are not yes more balanced, and a few change their minds (like me) about visible kills without restrictions.

The way you update your 1er post is cleary a way to manage your own opinion.
"easier for the DEV's to discuss this topic and see the line of argumentation" is a fake goal in this conditions.

If you go back and read the posts unquestionably the majority is in favor of the visibility of the skills !!

The right thing is that slamtam who was the creator of this topic, once the discussion is over, open a new topic with a poll to vote for 2/3 options, so the position of the community is clarified!
(edited)

I dont want to count and resume but im clearly not convince of a majority saying YES to all skills visible (for NT only and without restrictions)...

You are right.

EDIT :
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For the pain... i count.
And it was difficult...

— i count 14 voices YES, strictly yes to "show all skills for nt coach."

— i count 8 voices NO. strictly against "show all skills for nt coach."

— I count 6 voices for alternative solution "users can refuse to show skills to the NT coach in config"

— i count 3 voices for status quo.

There s a bias : some users "change their mind", or not strictly Y or N, i count them in both voices (for ex. sviktorov is YES first, but not against an alternative )

So if count the voices for the proposal (slamtam 1st post)
It's 14 YES vs 8 NO

if i count all the voices YES Vs other voices (no, alternative, status quo... )
it's 14 users Vs 17 users

Finally, voices are not votes. But for sure, Zero consensus or any large majority ^^

(edited)