Subject: [idea] Improving Starting Conditions for Beginners

So as I mentioned in the Beginners Problems thread, one of the main issues that new players face is that:

a) They are waaaay behind the vast majority of current players.
b) Bots are not challenging opponents.

It's a common theme in most multiplayer games these days: how long should a player have to play catch up before he or she becomes competitive?

A lot of games solve this dilemma by creating new servers and letting more people start on an equal playing field. Unfortunately this is not an option here as Sokker clearly doesn't have enough users.

So I believe this leaves us with the next best option: giving newbies a lot more things to work with when they join.

Let's consider a fast track option that allows new players to spend the first month playing a tutorial that will leave them with the kind of team they'd get after two years of current play time.

So after his tutorial they might have the following things:

* 15K stadium
* 100K weekly sponsor revenue
* A squad that reaches a 45 point rating
* 2 million € in cash

You may use different values but I think the point is clear. (and this thread isn't about tutorials, there's a separate thread for that)

The main goal should be to create new teams that are still weaker than established clubs but allow their managers to quickly bridge the gap.



On a side note I'd suggest we raise the ratings for bots to something like 40 points as well. Keep in mind that this would still be below what new teams start with but it would be more satisfying for newbies to beat those squads than those ridiculous lineups they're currently facing. I suppose it would also make the matches look more attractive. The match viewer can be spectacular at higher levels but the lower your skill set is the more unwatchable the games become.
I'm aware that this could lead to first round cup upsets because a super young trainee team might not be good enough. We could offset that potential revenue loss by increasing stadium sizes for bots and improving the pitch condition. I think that would be an acceptable trade off.

Just hipotetical situation
New team register on next week devs implement changes 1 week diff but they will have completely different start...

Yes, that's a problem. You might be able to counter that by offering the tutorial rewards to everyone who's relatively new.
We want to avoid frustrating players who joined not too long ago.

imho the problem is the price level we got since stadium prices innovation.
if you don't solve the inflation problem, tomorrow you'll have again to adjust the economics of new managers.

Admins should (imho) control that total money in sokker don't grow (in proportion to the users so: totale money/users... if we double the managers, we should double the money)
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Starting conditions for beginners must definitely improve, but what you propose is too much.
The values obviously need to be tested, but I was thinking about something like:

7,5K stadium (so more fans as well) - this should be the new minimum level for all teams
+- 30 rating (and raise level of bots as well) - it is fair for the users registered before and the level will improve significantly
1M euro should be enough (other teams that have registered before the change could receive some financial compensation) - but as el pupe says, we should be careful about the inflation

Well controling the entire game's money flow is a complex problem and only the devs know how well this is being handled at the moment.
My proposal would definitely be disruptive. Handing new players more money than before sounds like an inflationary move at first glance but it's impossible to know if this is really a problem without knowing the algorithms that manage this.
However keeping things the way they are right now doesn't feel like the right solution. The beginning of this game is basically broken and needs pretty drastic changes to become attractive again.

The numbers are definitely up for discussion.
I can buy a team with a rating of 30 for 11 € on the transfer market so using that as a starting point wouldn't change anything. :)
If we consider 50 to be the kind of rating you need to be able to battle the most casual long-term players then the question is how many real life years should new players have to invest before they reach that point. Based on that answer we can calculate how high their starting rating should be.
We need to find a way that keeps newbies from collecting repeated 0-10 losses at the beginning of their career though. This essentially makes sure that new players will not log back on after their first few impressions.

I don't agree with giving new managers stronger teams, it would create unbalance between new teams when it comes to the value of their players.

Just give them more starting money.

" it would create unbalance between new teams when it comes to the value of their players."

Could you elaborate on that? How is there a lack of balance if all new teams get this treatment?
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It's unbalanced for user registered just before implementation ..

Lets say two teams get 11x3 striker, there is a huge difference in value if one is 19 and another is 25 years old.

That is an extreme example, but even if you limit the age there is still a lot of random involved.
Someone gets 11x3 striker, but someone else gets 11 pass, 11 def, 11 str, a completely useless player.

Well that is correct, but it's always been like that with the initial rosters people get. Some new players get lucky and receive a young player with good skills while others get the 25 year old.

If you code it the right way then this more balanced approach you want can easily be obtained.

You suggest giving more money instead. That's also an option however that would mean new managers need to buy players and if they're true newbies they probably won't make good decisions on the transfer market. Also a lot of people will probably opt to play a game instead and what they'll see then is their time getting slaughtered. That's what I'm trying to avoid.

The problem with current starting conditions for beginners is that it is the same as it was 15 years ago.

To demonstrate this problem, I will show you the best teams marks in Czech republic in 2005/2006. You can see that the best teams managed to reach +30. Best players in newly formed national teams had rating 40. At those times it made a sense that new teams had +- 20 mark

15 years later and best club marks have improved from 30 to 70. But new teams have still marks 20.

1. 75.82 SK Tatra Smíchov První Liga
2. 73.88 Arsenal Prague První Liga
3. 73.22 Lukeš Team™ První Liga
4. 70.60 Olympique Moravia První Liga
5. 70.27 Sharp Boys Haleny První Liga
6. 69.21 SC Prague 68ers První Liga
7. 69.00 Hustlers Liga II.03
8. 68.94 FC Baník Ostrava !!! Liga II.04
9. 68.87 FC Kinyo Liga II.02
10. 68.62 vyoraní krtci Liga II.01


The same with money. I remember when 250k euro was quite a lot and you could buy top trainees for that money. Now, 250k euro is nothing.
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I agree with Verbal_Kint that it is just a question of right balancing. I will mention one more new perspective though. There was a quite big movement of the players' quality to the older players. Speed of decrease of old players had slowed noticeably, players were trained to their maximal potential over the years, and now you can buy old players for 1euro which are much much better than the ones that you receive in a new team.

I agree with the fact it is important to explain beginners that they can buy decent players for 1euro.

Rather than giving a lot of money at the beginning, it could be nice to dispatch the payment in several times (ex: 3 payments of 300k each saturday).

But it is important to start from zero

Raul to slavista
Improving starting position of new users is another part of plan and will be strongly developed - but for sure not with more money, bigger stadiums - it will only cause inflation, problem is much more complicated.

In the current environment we don't have many more options for how to improve the starting conditions of new users.

Giving beginners better players could definitely help. They will have stronger teams so the gap between old and new users will be lower. Richer clubs will buy the players from them so the money will flow from old to new users instead of emission of additional money into the circulation. And then they can spend the earned money on coaches, training players or stadium.
Another effect is more usable players on the transfer list which could result on lowering the prices of them.

Btw I am surprised there is no topic on the Game Economy yet ..

Giving beginners better players could definitely help

There would still have inequalities. It would be difficult to calibrate. It would depend a lot on luck with players and users registered a few days before could get angry.
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