The Length of the Season - Announcement

We can see a large number of comments regarding the shortening of the season to 12 weeks, which we proposed as a part of 3 options of the new season fixtures. Because the discussion about this element begins to dominate the fixtures itself, we want to present to you a larger context of this proposal.

Moreover, we emphasize that we are open to the discussion about the length of the season, other solutions are also possible. The season certainly needs shortening, but it does not have to be necessarily 12 weeks.

Why it is so important to shorten the season?

We have been working on developing Sokker for several months - the discussion we have with you is just one of the elements of this work. We also conducted a number of researches and individual conversations with players who left Sokker for different reasons.

The shortening of the season is one of the elements that we propose but it is essential to understand that it is the result of other changes that has to be implemented. It is not overriding requirement.

These conversations and interviews helped us to understand what the problems are for new users and why they decide to leave the game:

1. Too low dynamics. Many of players expects slow game but taking over the team when season is already in progress (and this is how 90% of new users joins the game) they find their team out of the national cup and they are left with one official match per week. Slow game does not mean for them one official match per week, it is definitely not enough.
2. They have to wait many weeks for the new season start and they play mainly with bots. The season seems to be too long and not interesting.
3. They calculate that reaching the highest level of championship will take a minimum of over a year (mathematically).
4. Former Sokker players who have been playing the game for more than a year or two also point out that the big problem of the game is the relatively small number of challenges. Teams are being eliminated from the National Cup very quickly (after 2 rounds only there is barely 25% of the teams left). They can play only league games. The dynamics in these leagues are not too impressive. It is common that they play at the same level for many seasons (a year or longer).

Knowing about these problems and at the same time understanding that we do not want to make Sokker a fast arcade game, we have prepared proposals that should diversify the game on several levels:

1. Adding additional competitions for everyone.
2. Increasing the number of matches per week by 1 or 2, respectively, depending on the scenario.
3. Decreasing the importance of friendly matches so they are not essential for development.
4. Shortening the length of the season to play a minimum of 4 full seasons during the calendar year (in the current proposal 4.5 season).

The current discussion focusing mainly on how long the season will be is not the right question here. Much more important is how many types of competitions will be in the game and how often they will be played.

Assigning specific days to particular competitions

Following the discussion, we can clearly see that it is a great value for users to have a clarity about what type of games are played on a given day of the week. We agree that it should remain the overriding rule.

For this reason, in case that proposal 1 or 2 is being selected for implementation - they will be adjusted so a specific day of the week is dedicated to the given games. This probably means a 14/15-week season.
If option 3 gets chosen, it is still possible to choose how many weeks the season lasts. It will depend on the number of teams playing in the league (because option 3 assumes two league matches a week).
Regardless of which option will be selected - the length of the season is the RESULT of the number of matches per week + the number of teams in the league. Not an end in itself, although from the game’s perspective we can see great benefits in shortening the season and we want this to happen at some point.

Concerns regarding shortening the season

There is a lot of concerns in regards to 12-week season however it seems that many of them arise due to the lack of understanding of a larger context of the changes we are planning (at the same time we apologise to you, but we cannot share with you the whole plan as yet - it will cause a lot of chaos and it will make discussion more difficult directing it to many threads). We will try to address emerging issues so you can have a better understand of the matter of the length of the season.

Negative impact on training, injuries, finances, juniors’ skills and their age, etc.

You can be assured that we are aware that changing the length of the season will require all other game parameters to be adjusted. Do not be afraid that all of the sudden injuries will become a much more serious problem or inflation will increase significantly due to the club's higher revenues. Any changes will be repeatedly tested on an accelerated test server to make sure that the shortening of the season will not destabilise the game and will be proportionally mapped in the other aspects of the game. The change in the length of the season, regardless of how many weeks we will agree to - will follow the adjustment of other elements.

Weaker players...

…which is associated with faster aging. Alright, this is partly true but also our goal. Sokker should have its Stars, but their number should be limited. If the season stays at its current length - we will have to counteract the problem of too many players trained to their maximum by extending training and that’s what we want to avoid. This is why shortening the season is a very desirable solution. Doing this by 25% we can also slightly accelerate training and this will benefit into more "green" Thursdays without losing the game’s soul.

Lack of adjustment to a National Teams calendar

It is true, we start our work with a calendar for all players, national teams will only be imposed on the final proposal. We can see no major problem here - there is always an option to create a system for a national teams that will fit into the new system. It only requires a bit of work.

The season will be too fast

The pace of the game is defined by the number of matches per week, not by weeks alone. If we construct a good fixture system, it won’t matter for experienced players, but it will make a difference to beginners.

Summary

Of course, it is possible that the above issues still do not address your concerns about the shortening of the season. If so, please discuss this here and provide specific arguments why the number of weeks of the season is so important.

At the same time, we would like you to remember how crucial moment it is for Sokker's future. The game needs to be changed - currently we have little more than 10% of users from its heyday. Moreover, the game requires considerable financial outlays and time for code to be rewritten. Without a project in which we got involved, Sokker would probably end even this year. To cover these changes, we need not only the support of the current community, but also the acquisition of new players. We are trying to work in a way that the proposed solutions are a reasonable compromise for current users and at the same time a great incentive for new ones. It is difficult but we believe it is possible.

Decisions about the game system will probably be the most controversial - we know that regardless of the option we choose, there will always be a group of players who are disappointed with new changes. This would also apply to sticking with the current system - many players have left due to the lack of excitement and challenges. Just because they are not speaking for themselves on the forum does not mean that the problem of lack of dynamics and not enough matches does not exist.

Decisions must be made and in this particular area, unfortunately, it will not be possible to work out one solution that pleases everyone. However, we will try our best to choose the one that will be best for as many of you as possible.

Assigning specific days to particular competitions

Following the discussion, we can clearly see that it is a great value for users to have a clarity about what type of games are played on a given day of the week. We agree that it should remain the overriding rule.

15 weeks is barely a trim.
14 has an issue of the qualifiers, also part of the league system.

Just go for option 3 then...

There are always gonna be unhappy people.

Few people in my country commented about this, and one of them said that the most important thing for him is 1 match a week, he doesn't care about the cup.

I would advise you to follow your vision, or Gregs vision, whatever is the case.

Shared vision, to be clear:), we are together with that - Damian, Greg, Mekene & me.

Just wanna ask something, sorry about multiple comments.

But, what did the people in the interviews say about the ME?
What do you guys, devs and owners, think the real issue with this game is? Calendar? ME? Something else?

perfect, thank you so much :-)

Please:

-no more than 3 games per week (4 is too much...)

-14 weeks per season is good compromise: (remember the poll, 70% prefer 14-15-16 weeks). from 16 to 12, 14 is in the middle, good agreement ;) and you can have one league game per week

- one day for every kind of games: one day for league games (sunday) one day for national/regional cup games and one day for international cup games.


IMHO: you rightly want to make the game more dynamic and attractive. I think you have to look for new users without risking losing the old ones. Finding the right compromise is a very delicate job.
You say that you don't want too fast and arcade games, that you want to keep the "spirit" of sokker. I really like this thought and let me tell you that: 4 games per week is arcade game :-P
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Just want to add one more thing, sorry for yet another comment.

I think that the key to getting new users is improving UI and UX. Add some nice clean graphics so the game looks more inviting. Look at OSM, looks very inviting.

Changing the name is also something I think should be considered.
I get it, it's a pun, soccer with "k." It is not a good name.

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we can clearly see that it is a great value for users to have a clarity about what type of games are played on a given day of the week. We agree that it should remain the overriding rule.

100% this. It keeps things simple for new and old users alike.

I also agree 100% with what Rebel.81 said.

The more I have thought about it, the more I see it is essential we have a 2nd, season long, official match.
Cups don't offer this (but they do offer short term excitement).

Therefore the 2nd season long official match needs to be a League of some sort.

This way you have a minimum of 2 official matches per week. And then have the extra excitement of a cup for a 3rd match for some weeks. And to get more people involved, having another cup starting part way through the season will give two lots of added excitement (because as you say, 2 weeks in to any cup means there are barely 25% of users still in it).

If so, please discuss this here and provide specific arguments why the number of weeks of the season is so important.


Another round...

The length of season is related to match/w we can't deal against this dependance, it's not ONLY about a more general context or future changes (about training...). Design and manage competitions for (good) challenges by weeks its all depend of length of the season ! If we define a season to 12w that's a frame and limit to design things. If we define to 15w that's another context... if we define no total weeks, every proposals and impressive (i must say^^) calendars got their own and specific good reasons and arguments.

My last 2 pences ...

@Raul could you answer to this?

1- When will the final decision be communicated?
2- About stars players, How would you address that? and how will this affect to residual skills? Because if you reduce the level of the players, they won't have good residual skills. I think there are many great players but not so much with more than 3x divine (true stars). It's not true?

First of all, I would like to thank you for your comments about the national team part
it was the first time and it was very helpful

from my side I'm basically interested in the NT part that gives me great joy in the game so
if you have a solution for 12 weeks without effecting the dymanic of the ΝΤ part,
if you see the negative comments about 2 league games in a week are not basically deterrent for most here and the 12 weeks with max 3 club official matches will bring more users and keep them more in to the game and the game has more potential to be grow again then I am with that side

else the safest solution i think is 14 weeks with max 3 club matches per week and League matches only on sunday


In any case, I will support you whatever you decide I feel like you are trying for the best and you take note of any comments

@To all
the important thing is to keep alive and improve the game that we have loved for so many years and it is part of our lifes
the truth is that we can't have all that wants but we can have most and to be able to continue to play the best football stratery game out there
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Year have 52/53 weeks... so if you want 4 seasons for year, must make max 13weeks season....

agree 100% with what Rebel.81 said...

And my problem is still 3 official matches and you still talking about play for win. It will too boring still play only with same and the best players.. but why do not make official matches for age limit????
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1. Too low dynamics. Many of players expects slow game but taking over the team when season is already in progress (and this is how 90% of new users joins the game) they find their team out of the national cup and they are left with one official match per week. Slow game does not mean for them one official match per week, it is definitely not enough.

Solved by new competition(s)
Solved by getting rid of the two weeks between the seasons



2. They have to wait many weeks for the new season start and they play mainly with bots. The season seems to be too long and not interesting.

Solved by new competition(s).
Solved by assigning users to the leagues with other users

1, The majority of new users are inactive, so even if you have other teams in the league, there is a big chance they will be inactive
2, Users are always assigned to the clubs that are at the top of the table.
So most of the lowest divisions look like this: 1st place - user, 2nd place - users/bot, 3rd-8th - place bots
Instead, one league by one should be completely filled (1th to 8th place) with users and leaving the rest of the leagues with bots only.



3. They calculate that reaching the highest level of championship will take a minimum of over a year (mathematically).

Solved by improving the starting position of new users (better players, more money, bigger stadium, ..)

The real problem is elsewhere. It is not the (matematical) ammount of time to reach the top division but the time it takes to build a team good enough to reach the top division. It took me 4 years (around 208 weeks!) to get from 4th to 1st division (and I ended 2nd in my first season in the 1st division) and this was my 4th team. I already started 4 times from the beginning and always reached the top division (yes I know, I am little bit crazy in this way). So shortening the season from 16 to 12 would optically reduce the time to reach the top division from 48 to 36 weeks but it would not really solve the problem



4. Former Sokker players who have been playing the game for more than a year or two also point out that the big problem of the game is the relatively small number of challenges. Teams are being eliminated from the National Cup very quickly (after 2 rounds only there is barely 25% of the teams left). They can play only league games. The dynamics in these leagues are not too impressive. It is common that they play at the same level for many seasons (a year or longer).

Solved by new competition(s).
Solved by improving the starting position of new users

Accept the fact that not everyone can play top divisions. There will always be winners and losers. But with the right strategy, it is possible to promote to higher division. If you are stuck at the same division for a long team (as an old user) perhaps you are doing something wrong


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But, what did the people in the interviews say about the ME?
What do you guys, devs and owners, think the real issue with this game is? Calendar? ME? Something else?

Well, there a two types of ex-sk players.
1. Majority, who played for fun a bit more, than for results - for them ME is a problem rather from "logical" point of view, they dont want a engine thet allows for example to run out the field with the ball. But overall, ME is appreciated, tactic idea that allow you to control your team so directly is important advantage of Sokker. Main problems here are game UX, design, hard to learn, to less games, boring most of days during the week.

2. Advanced players, knowing lot of details and most engaged in results, preparing different tactic for each game and so on - they are much more expecting, looking for some more advanced options, spending much more time on preparations. They offen see some problems with ME too - but to be honest - for now we belive we should keep ME as it is, for first turn of changes. We dont want a revolution, it will be best to focus just on few improvements at one time (so season system + training as most important).

UX and UI - most important part to be addressed for any new users - without it we will not invest in any promotion. It's parallel stream of our work, started few weeks ago. I hope we will be able to present something from that part in one month.

@Rebel.81 - we will give our proposal in next dev diary, together with training solution, based on polls and overall discussion. We think, that we just found some clever compromise between two groups (4 or 3 games).

But as we said in this announcement - we would like to know some specific arguments against 12 weeks, becouse we belive, that some of them are addressed with our explanation above.

I agree with devs.
Shorten the season is essential to make sokker to survive.
And it doesn't matter too much on the habits old users have (me too).
What is more relevant for us, older users, is to not add too many games on a week.
to have 4 seasons in one year, we have 2 option: 12weeks or 13 weeks.

having 4 season of 13 weeks is exactly 1 year: it fits with devs ideas.
i would agree on it, and it could be the same for users asking 14-15-16 weeks.

13 weeks season easly fit on option 1, that devs proposed to us, just adding 1 more week.
we will have only 1 more match to play in a week, agreeable for all users.

it will be possible to add 1-2 more games in national/international cups, depending by the rounds they need.

here easy examples





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