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Subject: [GD] Length of the Season - Announcement
I agree with devs.
Shorten the season is essential to make sokker to survive.
And it doesn't matter too much on the habits old users have (me too).
What is more relevant for us, older users, is to not add too many games on a week.
to have 4 seasons in one year, we have 2 option: 12weeks or 13 weeks.
having 4 season of 13 weeks is exactly 1 year: it fits with devs ideas.
i would agree on it, and it could be the same for users asking 14-15-16 weeks.
13 weeks season easly fit on option 1, that devs proposed to us, just adding 1 more week.
we will have only 1 more match to play in a week, agreeable for all users.
it will be possible to add 1-2 more games in national/international cups, depending by the rounds they need.
here easy examples
(edited)
Shorten the season is essential to make sokker to survive.
And it doesn't matter too much on the habits old users have (me too).
What is more relevant for us, older users, is to not add too many games on a week.
to have 4 seasons in one year, we have 2 option: 12weeks or 13 weeks.
having 4 season of 13 weeks is exactly 1 year: it fits with devs ideas.
i would agree on it, and it could be the same for users asking 14-15-16 weeks.
13 weeks season easly fit on option 1, that devs proposed to us, just adding 1 more week.
we will have only 1 more match to play in a week, agreeable for all users.
it will be possible to add 1-2 more games in national/international cups, depending by the rounds they need.
here easy examples
(edited)
I proposed a 13 week schedule, but this announcement basically rejects it.
Assigning specific days to particular competitions
Following the discussion, we can clearly see that it is a great value for users to have a clarity about what type of games are played on a given day of the week. We agree that it should remain the overriding rule.
Season with less than 14 weeks is now possible only with 2 league matches a week.
Assigning specific days to particular competitions
Following the discussion, we can clearly see that it is a great value for users to have a clarity about what type of games are played on a given day of the week. We agree that it should remain the overriding rule.
Season with less than 14 weeks is now possible only with 2 league matches a week.
But as we said in this announcement - we would like to know some specific arguments against 12 weeks, becouse we belive, that some of them are addressed with our explanation above.
my general opinion against 12 weeks:
- I really don't like the idea of playing more than one league game per week. So in leagues with 14 games I think 14 weeks is minimum.
- If you want to add new competitions (which is nice and interested thing) it's difficult to do everything with 3 games per week in 12 weeks (and for me 4 games per week is a taboo, it is cross the line between sokker and new arcade game).
my general opinion against 12 weeks:
- I really don't like the idea of playing more than one league game per week. So in leagues with 14 games I think 14 weeks is minimum.
- If you want to add new competitions (which is nice and interested thing) it's difficult to do everything with 3 games per week in 12 weeks (and for me 4 games per week is a taboo, it is cross the line between sokker and new arcade game).
1- When will the final decision be communicated?
We have proposal based on current polls & discussion - will be published upcoming Friday.
2- About stars players, How would you address that? and how will this affect to residual skills? Because if you reduce the level of the players, they won't have good residual skills. I think there are many great players but not so much with more than 3x divine (true stars). It's not true?
Well, we belive that being a 3x devine player should be a kind of fenomen. Even in real life - Messi would be X time devine, byt he is not 3x devine striker - there are faster players than he. In the old times sokker games where more exciting, allowing managers to find different strategy - one Was prefering fast strikers, other strong wings and striking from the head - for now, its becoming very similar. We will think about that problem on few areas - shortening season is one of them, but probably not the only one.
We have proposal based on current polls & discussion - will be published upcoming Friday.
2- About stars players, How would you address that? and how will this affect to residual skills? Because if you reduce the level of the players, they won't have good residual skills. I think there are many great players but not so much with more than 3x divine (true stars). It's not true?
Well, we belive that being a 3x devine player should be a kind of fenomen. Even in real life - Messi would be X time devine, byt he is not 3x devine striker - there are faster players than he. In the old times sokker games where more exciting, allowing managers to find different strategy - one Was prefering fast strikers, other strong wings and striking from the head - for now, its becoming very similar. We will think about that problem on few areas - shortening season is one of them, but probably not the only one.
We will probably start discussion about NT calendar after next Dev Diary - we would like to prepare that part based on your comments.
Ok, i understand now:) but as we said - there is major rule, to find dedicated days for perticular type of competition.
We can agree on that.
We can agree on that.
In the old times sokker games where more exciting, allowing managers to find different strategy - one Was prefering fast strikers, other strong wings and striking from the head - for now, its becoming very similar.
It may be an unpopular opinion, but it is one I agree with. Having players with different strengths (and weaknesses) only helps to enhance the role of good tactics. So yes, 3x divine should be an outlier.
These mids with 5x unearthly are just ridiculous, and I don't think sokker was ever designed to have such players
It may be an unpopular opinion, but it is one I agree with. Having players with different strengths (and weaknesses) only helps to enhance the role of good tactics. So yes, 3x divine should be an outlier.
These mids with 5x unearthly are just ridiculous, and I don't think sokker was ever designed to have such players
You're right about most of your points, but it's also not so simple, that one problem can be addressed with one solution. It's offten a combination of many small adjustments and some bigger ones - for today we talking about game calendar, but it dont mean, that in our work we dont think about wider context and other game areas.
Shortening the season is a part of plan, not the main purpose.
Improving starting position of new users is another part of plan and will be strongly developed - but for sure not with more money, bigger stadiums - it will only cause inflation, problem is much more complicated.
Shortening the season is a part of plan, not the main purpose.
Improving starting position of new users is another part of plan and will be strongly developed - but for sure not with more money, bigger stadiums - it will only cause inflation, problem is much more complicated.
there is one more thing i would like to ask about: play off system
(it's not on thread discussion, but it can be last time to ask it
I like new system, it's more fair than the prevoius one. but it allows 0 direct promotion + 50% promotion after playoffs
in different ways users (me too) asked to: improve direct promotion, often with less playoff matches
is it possible to apply following change?
50% best 1st classified >> direct promotion, +25% promotions after playoff results.
in this way we will have always 75% promotion.
in my opinion it could give more fun to a new user too.
tnx
(edited)
(it's not on thread discussion, but it can be last time to ask it
I like new system, it's more fair than the prevoius one. but it allows 0 direct promotion + 50% promotion after playoffs
in different ways users (me too) asked to: improve direct promotion, often with less playoff matches
is it possible to apply following change?
50% best 1st classified >> direct promotion, +25% promotions after playoff results.
in this way we will have always 75% promotion.
in my opinion it could give more fun to a new user too.
tnx
(edited)
You asked for problems with 12 weeks, so here's my 2 cents.
The biggest issue with 12 weeks is not being able to fit in league matches, on a particular day, and still have the good 8 teams, with home and away matches present.
This game has lots of parents, full time workers etc. (because many of us started 15yrs ago as students), and they just can't have matches from the same league happening more than once per week (so a second league on the Friday is a good option, because Friday nights most people are more free than weekdays, so have more chance of being available).
The season being shorter, in itself is not too much of an issue, it's more about scheduling. As you said, training/injuries/cards/money, they can all be adjusted quite easily.
There have not been any good scheduling ideas posted for 12/13 weeks, the best being 14weeks.
Options for 12 weeks, whilst keeping on the same day, basically include, removing home and away fixtures and increasing the league size, or reducing the league size to 6 and having home and away. Both have their pros and cons.
Reducing to 12 weeks also limits having cups. Right now we could fit in 2 leagues and 2 cups in to one season, without having more than 3 matches per week and without having more than one day for any set competition. This allows for 1 national league, 1 national cup, 1 international league and 1 continental cup. 4 different exciting competitions.
At 12 weeks, this limits it to either 1 league and 2 cups, or 2 leagues and 1 cup, or 1 league, 1 cup and 1 group followed by finals. Either way, 12 weeks limits it to 3 competitions. This is 1 national league 1 national cup, and 1 of international or continental competition, so not as exciting.
So all in all, scheduling and variety of competition is the major limiting problem with 12 weeks. Whilst there isn't a huge difference between 16 and 14 weeks, there is a big difference between 14 and 12 weeks, it's basically a different game then
The biggest issue with 12 weeks is not being able to fit in league matches, on a particular day, and still have the good 8 teams, with home and away matches present.
This game has lots of parents, full time workers etc. (because many of us started 15yrs ago as students), and they just can't have matches from the same league happening more than once per week (so a second league on the Friday is a good option, because Friday nights most people are more free than weekdays, so have more chance of being available).
The season being shorter, in itself is not too much of an issue, it's more about scheduling. As you said, training/injuries/cards/money, they can all be adjusted quite easily.
There have not been any good scheduling ideas posted for 12/13 weeks, the best being 14weeks.
Options for 12 weeks, whilst keeping on the same day, basically include, removing home and away fixtures and increasing the league size, or reducing the league size to 6 and having home and away. Both have their pros and cons.
Reducing to 12 weeks also limits having cups. Right now we could fit in 2 leagues and 2 cups in to one season, without having more than 3 matches per week and without having more than one day for any set competition. This allows for 1 national league, 1 national cup, 1 international league and 1 continental cup. 4 different exciting competitions.
At 12 weeks, this limits it to either 1 league and 2 cups, or 2 leagues and 1 cup, or 1 league, 1 cup and 1 group followed by finals. Either way, 12 weeks limits it to 3 competitions. This is 1 national league 1 national cup, and 1 of international or continental competition, so not as exciting.
So all in all, scheduling and variety of competition is the major limiting problem with 12 weeks. Whilst there isn't a huge difference between 16 and 14 weeks, there is a big difference between 14 and 12 weeks, it's basically a different game then
2- About stars players, How would you address that? and how will this affect to residual skills? Because if you reduce the level of the players, they won't have good residual skills. I think there are many great players but not so much with more than 3x divine (true stars). It's not true?
Well, we belive that being a 3x devine player should be a kind of fenomen. Even in real life - Messi would be X time devine, byt he is not 3x devine striker - there are faster players than he. In the old times sokker games where more exciting, allowing managers to find different strategy - one Was prefering fast strikers, other strong wings and striking from the head - for now, its becoming very similar. We will think about that problem on few areas - shortening season is one of them, but probably not the only one
I agree, and I think that sokke ME gives his best playing experience between 60 and 65 of average.
Well, we belive that being a 3x devine player should be a kind of fenomen. Even in real life - Messi would be X time devine, byt he is not 3x devine striker - there are faster players than he. In the old times sokker games where more exciting, allowing managers to find different strategy - one Was prefering fast strikers, other strong wings and striking from the head - for now, its becoming very similar. We will think about that problem on few areas - shortening season is one of them, but probably not the only one
I agree, and I think that sokke ME gives his best playing experience between 60 and 65 of average.
3. They calculate that reaching the highest level of championship will take a minimum of over a year (mathematically).
Solved by improving the starting position of new users (better players, more money, bigger stadium, ..)
it is not true
The real problem is elsewhere. It is not the (matematical) ammount of time to reach the top division but the time it takes to build a team good enough to reach the top division.
that might be some kind of minor problem, but from new user point of view the mathematical amount of time matters because they arent aware that thay probably will be unable to win leagues season after season
It took me 4 years (around 208 weeks!) to get from 4th to 1st division (and I ended 2nd in my first season in the 1st division) and this was my 4th team.
that is some interesting info, because i doubt anyone tried 4 times
why not 1 try?
the place you ended in you firs season in the 1st division clearly shows that there is no need for 208 days to do that; I would expect 1st try ending at 5th place at most and probably 7th or 8th, You probably took a lot of time for preparations to by uber-strong and that is why it took so long
Anyway, simple solution to that would be making more flat league structure, so more teams per league (like 12 proposed in option 3)
I agree with the rest what You've said (more or less agree)
Also, I dont remember if You wrote that but removing bot teams would also help
I also don't think 12 weeks alone will help. Maybe with other changes it will, but I would say that it will be result of these other changes. I mean 12 weeks is still a lot and it will rather attract players like us - the players already here. And 16 or 12 isnt much of a difference but probably cause some to leave and some to get back and ultimately number of users will stay as it is.
If You want many more new players You should probably think about total rework, switch to maybe season within a week or two. Something which could attract different kind of people than those already here (don't do that obviously, I am just thinking loudly).
Solved by improving the starting position of new users (better players, more money, bigger stadium, ..)
it is not true
The real problem is elsewhere. It is not the (matematical) ammount of time to reach the top division but the time it takes to build a team good enough to reach the top division.
that might be some kind of minor problem, but from new user point of view the mathematical amount of time matters because they arent aware that thay probably will be unable to win leagues season after season
It took me 4 years (around 208 weeks!) to get from 4th to 1st division (and I ended 2nd in my first season in the 1st division) and this was my 4th team.
that is some interesting info, because i doubt anyone tried 4 times
why not 1 try?
the place you ended in you firs season in the 1st division clearly shows that there is no need for 208 days to do that; I would expect 1st try ending at 5th place at most and probably 7th or 8th, You probably took a lot of time for preparations to by uber-strong and that is why it took so long
Anyway, simple solution to that would be making more flat league structure, so more teams per league (like 12 proposed in option 3)
I agree with the rest what You've said (more or less agree)
Also, I dont remember if You wrote that but removing bot teams would also help
I also don't think 12 weeks alone will help. Maybe with other changes it will, but I would say that it will be result of these other changes. I mean 12 weeks is still a lot and it will rather attract players like us - the players already here. And 16 or 12 isnt much of a difference but probably cause some to leave and some to get back and ultimately number of users will stay as it is.
If You want many more new players You should probably think about total rework, switch to maybe season within a week or two. Something which could attract different kind of people than those already here (don't do that obviously, I am just thinking loudly).
Didn't decided jet:) it depends from the scenario too - and number of teams in league. But we open to consider it.
13 weeks is the best option, a significant decrease and manageable 2-3 matches per week
thanks for the explanation
I love the current duration, but the arguments for change and reduction are very understandable
like said Rebel.81, 4 games per week would be an very excessive, I think it would be practically a new and very different game
I love the current duration, but the arguments for change and reduction are very understandable
like said Rebel.81, 4 games per week would be an very excessive, I think it would be practically a new and very different game
Except there is currently no good proposed idea to keep matches on their own day of the week. Once they start being on multiple days or on a different day during some weeks of the season and not others, it gets very confusing for everyone