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Subject: [GD] 2D vs. 3D
3D engine (that can serve as 2D top view too) is theoretically a gain, two-in-one.
And the best option for all sides :)
I don't know anything about time consuming or server need and CPU, and I don't care, I just want the best for the game and that is a 2020 looking game and features.
Those who wants 2D, click top view and there it is. Just as it is right now, but better looking. No one is loosing ANYTHING!
Those who want 3D, click side view, and there it is, again, no one is loosing ANYTHING!
Win - win, FOR EVERYONE.
And those who not understand this, just don't want to understand it, as simple as that. Stubbornly on purpose, notihng else.
EDIT: and no, I don't take in account how much time it takes to make this, how much money it takes, etc. That's not the question either. It's up to the DEV's to decide, we just post ideas and don't have to think for the DEV's.
We have to think for this game, what is best for a 2020 game and how to attrack many new users.
(edited)
And the best option for all sides :)
I don't know anything about time consuming or server need and CPU, and I don't care, I just want the best for the game and that is a 2020 looking game and features.
Those who wants 2D, click top view and there it is. Just as it is right now, but better looking. No one is loosing ANYTHING!
Those who want 3D, click side view, and there it is, again, no one is loosing ANYTHING!
Win - win, FOR EVERYONE.
And those who not understand this, just don't want to understand it, as simple as that. Stubbornly on purpose, notihng else.
EDIT: and no, I don't take in account how much time it takes to make this, how much money it takes, etc. That's not the question either. It's up to the DEV's to decide, we just post ideas and don't have to think for the DEV's.
We have to think for this game, what is best for a 2020 game and how to attrack many new users.
(edited)
Well if I have 3D that gives me easy way to understand the game engine and errors in tactics I'm 100 for it just fun animation that I will like few times only if devs have budget :)
in 3D viewer , if you set the camera in Stadium view with 80% high, you have the same view as 2D to analyse tactics.
today I decide to watch my match with this settings, but I think actually 2d is better. Why?
Because:
-I can't see every part of the pitch
-I can't recognize my players from the opponents (all in white shirts..)
-the animation is confusing (a player goes right then suddenly pass left... everybody doing "no look passes?)
This 3d is worst than the actual 2d (IMHO).
Is 3d improvable? yes, for sure.... but why to do it? I don't need it.
I don't need a FIFA-like graphics for having fun in sokker...
today I decide to watch my match with this settings, but I think actually 2d is better. Why?
Because:
-I can't see every part of the pitch
-I can't recognize my players from the opponents (all in white shirts..)
-the animation is confusing (a player goes right then suddenly pass left... everybody doing "no look passes?)
This 3d is worst than the actual 2d (IMHO).
Is 3d improvable? yes, for sure.... but why to do it? I don't need it.
I don't need a FIFA-like graphics for having fun in sokker...
-I can't see every part of the pitch
may be you are set Zoom not Height , because I see all the pitch
-I can't recognize my players from the opponents (all in white shirts..)
yes, the colors are not well set in 3D
-the animation is confusing (a player goes right then suddenly pass left... everybody doing "no look passes?)
?? I have see my match in 2D and 3D and this is the sames actions, If the actions are differents, something is wrong.
technology has made huge progress since 2006, will you also need to use a newer viewer? flash die
may be you are set Zoom not Height , because I see all the pitch
-I can't recognize my players from the opponents (all in white shirts..)
yes, the colors are not well set in 3D
-the animation is confusing (a player goes right then suddenly pass left... everybody doing "no look passes?)
?? I have see my match in 2D and 3D and this is the sames actions, If the actions are differents, something is wrong.
technology has made huge progress since 2006, will you also need to use a newer viewer? flash die
in 3D viewer , if you set the camera in Stadium view with 80% high, you have the same view as 2D to analyse tactics.
2D in current '3D' is not what it should become. The current 3D needs to be let go, forget about it, that is not the benchmark of what 3D should look like at all. As long people think that is Sokker 3D worthy then those people lack vision completely.
This is what everyone should think of, this kind of quality or better:
Is 3d improvable? yes, for sure.... but why to do it? I don't need it.
No problem, but it is not about 'I', it is about the future of Sokker. Something many seems to forget.
Look at the current number of managers (not real active managers because that will be even drasticly lower). The drop of numbers show that this Sokker is not attractive enough to start playing or keep playing anymore. Those days are over for over a decade maybe.
So loose the 'I' and think of what Sokker needs in 2020 to attrack the new users we need.
And this post is for everyone who keeps thinging in 'I want' and not 'Sokker needs'.
2D in current '3D' is not what it should become. The current 3D needs to be let go, forget about it, that is not the benchmark of what 3D should look like at all. As long people think that is Sokker 3D worthy then those people lack vision completely.
This is what everyone should think of, this kind of quality or better:
Is 3d improvable? yes, for sure.... but why to do it? I don't need it.
No problem, but it is not about 'I', it is about the future of Sokker. Something many seems to forget.
Look at the current number of managers (not real active managers because that will be even drasticly lower). The drop of numbers show that this Sokker is not attractive enough to start playing or keep playing anymore. Those days are over for over a decade maybe.
So loose the 'I' and think of what Sokker needs in 2020 to attrack the new users we need.
And this post is for everyone who keeps thinging in 'I want' and not 'Sokker needs'.
Those who wants 2D, click top view and there it is. Just as it is right now, but better looking
Devs could take advantage of it with plus.
Top view like default view for non-plus users and 3d view for plus users (more or less like now). Obviously 3D must improve so much. Almost nobody likes this 3D. I prefer 2D to this 3D.
Devs could take advantage of it with plus.
Top view like default view for non-plus users and 3d view for plus users (more or less like now). Obviously 3D must improve so much. Almost nobody likes this 3D. I prefer 2D to this 3D.
I think this is the main question...
but I believe that assuming answers based on our impressions is wrong. Maybe the devs have made some inquiries, but I have no news of the fact that concerned the live ... with all the points where the graphics are inadequate ...
They have done some inquiries with ex-users and people who never played sokker. It's in the Dev diaries.
I understand that the site's graphics are important, I understand that live is an important part of the site, but I don't understand why you shouldn't improve what works, rather than work on what doesn't.
It's precisely the other way around. You have to polish the weak spots to have a complete product. In videogames and in every other thing you want to sell.
last thing, the order of priority:
first of all, the game must not lose its playability, which is guaranteed by the ability to see the actions done on the editor on the field.
... then the graphics.
the world is full of beautiful games to see that nobody plays!
I don't understand why so much users think that upgrading the graphics will turn sokker into Fortnite. It won't.
The world is also full of amazing games with passable graphics that less and less people play.. like sokker ;)
(edited)
but I believe that assuming answers based on our impressions is wrong. Maybe the devs have made some inquiries, but I have no news of the fact that concerned the live ... with all the points where the graphics are inadequate ...
They have done some inquiries with ex-users and people who never played sokker. It's in the Dev diaries.
I understand that the site's graphics are important, I understand that live is an important part of the site, but I don't understand why you shouldn't improve what works, rather than work on what doesn't.
It's precisely the other way around. You have to polish the weak spots to have a complete product. In videogames and in every other thing you want to sell.
last thing, the order of priority:
first of all, the game must not lose its playability, which is guaranteed by the ability to see the actions done on the editor on the field.
... then the graphics.
the world is full of beautiful games to see that nobody plays!
I don't understand why so much users think that upgrading the graphics will turn sokker into Fortnite. It won't.
The world is also full of amazing games with passable graphics that less and less people play.. like sokker ;)
(edited)
No problem, but it is not about 'I', it is about the future of Sokker. Something many seems to forget.
Look at the current number of managers (not real active managers because that will be even drasticly lower). The drop of numbers show that this Sokker is not attractive enough to start playing or keep playing anymore. Those days are over for over a decade maybe.
So loose the 'I' and think of what Sokker needs in 2020 to attrack the new users we need.
And this post is for everyone who keeps thinging in 'I want' and not 'Sokker needs'.
I couldn't agree more.
Look at the current number of managers (not real active managers because that will be even drasticly lower). The drop of numbers show that this Sokker is not attractive enough to start playing or keep playing anymore. Those days are over for over a decade maybe.
So loose the 'I' and think of what Sokker needs in 2020 to attrack the new users we need.
And this post is for everyone who keeps thinging in 'I want' and not 'Sokker needs'.
I couldn't agree more.
2D in current '3D' is not what it should become. The current 3D needs to be let go, forget about it, that is not the benchmark of what 3D should look like at all. As long people think that is Sokker 3D worthy then those people lack vision completely.
as I already said: I got nothing against e new 3d.
It's only that is not necessary at all.
Look at the current number of managers (not real active managers because that will be even drasticly lower). The drop of numbers show that this Sokker is not attractive enough to start playing or keep playing anymore. Those days are over for over a decade maybe.
So loose the 'I' and think of what Sokker needs in 2020 to attrack the new users we need.
And this post is for everyone who keeps thinging in 'I want' and not 'Sokker needs'.
this part of your post is really missign the point..
Because it is exactly what I'm saying.
The 3d isn't necessary for sokker, not for me.
In your post you make an assumption: a better 3d will keep more users to the game.
but this idea has not been argued ... except in a vague way .. and it seems to me not justified with solid elements.
Look: it is not for this reason that new users leave the game!
I repeat myself: maybe we should understand what the strengths and weaknesses of the sokker "product" really are, before inventing needs that could prove artificial.
...try to remember how it went the last time the dev intervened a few years ago .. let's try to learn from the mistakes.
(edited)
as I already said: I got nothing against e new 3d.
It's only that is not necessary at all.
Look at the current number of managers (not real active managers because that will be even drasticly lower). The drop of numbers show that this Sokker is not attractive enough to start playing or keep playing anymore. Those days are over for over a decade maybe.
So loose the 'I' and think of what Sokker needs in 2020 to attrack the new users we need.
And this post is for everyone who keeps thinging in 'I want' and not 'Sokker needs'.
this part of your post is really missign the point..
Because it is exactly what I'm saying.
The 3d isn't necessary for sokker, not for me.
In your post you make an assumption: a better 3d will keep more users to the game.
but this idea has not been argued ... except in a vague way .. and it seems to me not justified with solid elements.
Look: it is not for this reason that new users leave the game!
I repeat myself: maybe we should understand what the strengths and weaknesses of the sokker "product" really are, before inventing needs that could prove artificial.
...try to remember how it went the last time the dev intervened a few years ago .. let's try to learn from the mistakes.
(edited)
They have done some inquiries with ex-users and people who never played sokker. It's in the Dev diaries.
can you show me where they say "manager leave the game because of the orrible 3d viewer"?
can you show me where they say "manager leave the game because of the orrible 3d viewer"?
try to remember how it went the last time the dev intervened a few years ago .. let's try to learn from the mistakes.
You can't compare that "update" with this one!
First of all... It was over 10 years ago and graphics and "needs" have changed alot since then...
2nd, that update was a joke comparing to this one... They're litterally re-writing the entire code before they are going to change things around, cause they know we have to evolve in order for sokker to be able to simply survive.
Now, you said, The 3d isn't necessary for sokker, not for me.
In your post you make an assumption: a better 3d will keep more users to the game.
but this idea has not been argued ... except in a vague way .. and it seems to me not justified with solid elements.
Look: it is not for this reason that new users leave the game!
Actually, lots of users stopped playing because the graphics of the game, in general, was not good enough.
The thing is... The lack of a decent 3D prevents people from even trying this game out...and that's why Charles was right and you're missing the point. It is crucial for sokker. You don't need it, cause you're used to the graphics and the game itself has more than enough nostalgics for you to stay. But without the 3D, it's going to stay with nostalgic users, I'm afraid...
You can't compare that "update" with this one!
First of all... It was over 10 years ago and graphics and "needs" have changed alot since then...
2nd, that update was a joke comparing to this one... They're litterally re-writing the entire code before they are going to change things around, cause they know we have to evolve in order for sokker to be able to simply survive.
Now, you said, The 3d isn't necessary for sokker, not for me.
In your post you make an assumption: a better 3d will keep more users to the game.
but this idea has not been argued ... except in a vague way .. and it seems to me not justified with solid elements.
Look: it is not for this reason that new users leave the game!
Actually, lots of users stopped playing because the graphics of the game, in general, was not good enough.
The thing is... The lack of a decent 3D prevents people from even trying this game out...and that's why Charles was right and you're missing the point. It is crucial for sokker. You don't need it, cause you're used to the graphics and the game itself has more than enough nostalgics for you to stay. But without the 3D, it's going to stay with nostalgic users, I'm afraid...
I could not agree more. These graphics only work for nostalgics users. It's a fact. Those who prefer 2d are old users (2005-2008).
Technology has evolved significantly in recent years, and it's demotivating for new users.
I'm a nostalgic user too but we need to think about getting new users. Anyway, 2D is necessary too.
(edited)
Technology has evolved significantly in recent years, and it's demotivating for new users.
I'm a nostalgic user too but we need to think about getting new users. Anyway, 2D is necessary too.
(edited)
It's not nostalgic users it's because for example valuable charts for training for example are way more accurate then new ones in new template introduced also some tools worked only on old layouts etc ..