Subject: [change] Sponsorship between countries

Achmid I agree with your first sentence,
but I do not understand why you focus so much on sponsorship... Haven't you heared of the club from Luxemburg, that is very reach, not because of the sponsorship, but because of training? Do you know, that many teams focus on other ways to increase their finances and sponsorship money is for them peanuts? Do you know, that there are teams, that just after 4-5 seasons after registration, they had over 30 million € income from transfers of trained young players?

These are just 3 closed questions. Closed question can be answered only by "yes", "no", or "I don't know". If your answers are different, then you have not understand my questions, so read them again and I promise to show you new ways of experiencing joy in this game called "sokker manager". ;)

The so called "Sokker business manager" :-D

Let me try another closed question and you will get your answer tsolias : is there another way to make much money in 4-5 seasons other than by purchase/resale? The so closed question can be answered only by "no" :-)

Winning matches? Reaching a higher rank/league ? No. Sponsors and ticketing it's just peanuts vs purchase/resale. Clubs that are starting to make a lot of money are the weakest in lower leagues and sometimes... in small countries.

So you both say purchase and resale is the major form of income, but why does that stop the importance of making sponsorship fair for all? That is you two trying to deflect.

Also when you get less sponsorship, you also get less disposable income. That is income that doesn't disappear in day to day spending of sokker (coach salaries, player salaries, stadium maintanence etc).

So if a new team in Australia gets 100k but the new team in Poland or France gets 180k.
Now they both spend 85k on salaries of players, coaches and stadium. This mean after 1 season, the team from Australia has 240k to spend on players. The team from Poland has 1520k. Now obviously poland/France players now get to buy better youths, that sell for more after training, and therefore puchase/sale brings in a lot more money.

"oh but we need more expensive coaches because we are in big nation"
OK so let's say your coaches cost more, so much more than both countries have just 240k to spend on buying players. Now with the better coaches, the players bought by the Polish/French manager, will train faster and get higher skills, therefore sell for more.

So you see, even using this excuse, you are still proving why sponsorship needs to be even. Because by getting more sponsorship from an early stage, you are able to grow quick as you either have more expendable income or better coaches

there are teams, that just after 4-5 seasons after registration, they had over 30 million € income from transfers of trained young players?

And over 5 seasons, how much did they make in sponsorship and bonuses? 15-20mil? That's a lot of peanuts!

juytt achmid and vivskii, I think I understood now your arguments and you may count on my support.

+1

(edited)

Your re right about sponsorship, but (for months ! :) you didn't understand the point.

Of course sponsor is disconnected from purchase/resale, but the point is sponsorship its peanuts compare to purchase/resale. Or if you did not understand let's try this :

Let's say i got more sponsors than you for the same level... its unfair, ok right, but i dont care because any uncompetitive teams in any low level leagues, in any small countries with much less sponsors than me can make more money in 4 seasons than my "huge and unfair" f* sponsors in 20 seasons. I didnt say that purchase/resale is a good thing, quite to the contrary, but i just tell you the "economic" reality in sokker : you can't reach top ranking with sponsors, no one, nobody, never !

The best thing in the small countries is to be able to farm while sitting in the 1st league and to not loose 4 or 5 seasons to reach 1st league once one decide to play the title.

Cannot wait to see the numbers of users to decrease to 3 or 4 in France !

Once, your team sits on the position you want it too (with a big stadium, 5 magical/unearthly coaches, 10 top-notch trainees and 12 great first team players, being able to turn break-even 2-weekly), you are completely right.
The point of the aussies and new-zeas is... New teams in Poland, Romania, Italy or any team with over 100 users can get to this position in like 6 to 8 seasons, where the aussies need approx. 25 seasons to get there. And THAT is the problem...

Remember your period when you just started the game. You had nothing. No players, no coach, no money, no big stadium, no fans,...

So you invested with the little money you had... A new coach with unearthly pace (or another skill) and 22 very young pace trainees (in my example). This costed like 150k out of the 500k you start with.
After 2 seasons you could sell half of the players, to buy an expantion on the stadium to get it from 3.1k to 15k.
Then you buy some older players to get a little bit more competitive, cause, let's be honest... Those trainees still are not great assets to your team, neither do they give lots of money in return.

So you continue training those 10 trainees who were not sold on defender for example...

After again 2 seasons, most of them are like 21/22 and have skills around double outstanding/incredible on def and pace, without (for most of them) any sideskill.

So let's say, you sell 5 of them and keep the other 5 to put in your defence and to train them further in def, cause still, double incredible is good, but not good enough if you raise 1 division...

And with the money you get from those 5 other trainees, you could buy 5 new trainees (slightly better than the first ones), and get yourself some decent assistents.

Then after another 2 seasons, you sell the younger trainees for some more money than the previous 5, buy 5 new trainees, this time mid-trainees. You train those 5 older trainees, 23/24 y/old now, on passing + those 5 young mid-trainees you have. Now, the issue, 5 deftrainees and 5 mid-trainees. passing need mid-order to have maximum rendability, so you place you older trainees with mid-order and buy 3/4 older defs (33/34y old) with higher def/pace to keep your competitive level higher.

After another 2 seasons you sell ALL trainees for about 10M in total. You expand the stadium a 2nd time from 15k to 35k this time... you buy a new coach (or recruit) and better assistants AND you open a youth team and recruit a yunior coach.
Let's say all these expenses costs around 5/6M, so you can invest in 10 new trainees for around 3M in total and some plus aditions in your team on non-trainee places.

Now 8 seasons have passed and you have yourself a stadium of 35k places, a magical youth coach, 3 brilliant assistants and an incredible head coach with multiple unearthly skills along with 10 decent trainees and a moderate team, being able to turn break-even within 2 weeks.

And all that Thanks to the sponsor income you get to be able to pay for all wage and maintenance expenses...

Now imagine that sponsorship deal worth only half of the money... You need at least 15 to 20 seasons to get this far in a small country. And this is only the beginning... The part were you can buy millions per trainee is still far away from what I've simulated in my example.

So you farming story for small countries...It's only possible after at least 30/35 seasons...

And THAT is the issue that small countries have in comparison with big countries.

"aussies need approx. 25 seasons to get there."

What if I'd show you users from smaller sokker-countries than Australia, who reached this point at less than 8 seasons?

They probably were lucky, having an early youth team with a great prospect or a *lucky* superbuy or something...
Normally, this is the big issue...
It's like they say... exceptions strengthens the rule

They hadn't a great prospect, I know what they had: They had worthless players and they had luck, because somebody told them what to do and they just did it. All of them. No exceptions.

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The best thing in the small countries is to be able to farm while sitting in the 1st league and to not loose 4 or 5 seasons to reach 1st league once one decide to play the title.

Now take a deep breath and think...isn't that a problem? I'm talking about the small countries here and just a small hint: don't ponder from the sponsorship angle.
(edited)

The best thing in the small countries is to be able to farm while sitting in the 1st league and to not loose 4 or 5 seasons to reach 1st league once one decide to play the title.

You mean we don't get the opportunity in 4-5 seasons to increase our sponsorship, increase our gate takings and increase our income long term.

Also by farm, you mean train up those juniors you wouldn't even look at as trainees, because we can't afford the ones that you would go after.

Other people have tried to say you can sit in Div 1 and win the league with U18/19s giving us some sort of advantage, except, this is where large nations really show their privilege, that they could even afford players of this age who could rate in the 50's when all we can afford at that age are those that normally rate in the 30's.

And having 3x Brilliant assistants? This is a joke right? I'm 2nd in Australia and do not have the finances to be doing that, let alone 3x magical.

Now when Australia had over 100users back in the day, I could do that, and do it with ease. I was also earning 520-550k in sponsorship back in those days (with my old team before leaving sokker), and this is because of exactly what my post regarding "expendable income" was talking all about.

So no, we can't just sit there and farm, or at least not sit there and farm anything decent, because we don't have the money to do so. We don't have the expendable income. And because we don't have the money, we can't buy the trainees that end up selling for huge profits (there's always the exception but generally not).

As they say, you need money to make money, and this is true for Sokker too. So when you have a much higher income coming in, mainly because you are in a big country, with old teams, who have built up their fanclubs, whether they are active/inactive/bot, it is easy to make money (remember you also get a lot more from matches too).

I would love to see France with only 3-4 users too, then you would understand. Ask the Admins if you can start a new team in Letzeburg, New Zealand, or even Australia, and lets see just how much money you can bring in. You have literally never been in a small country playing this game, yet I have been in a medium-large size nation (by todays standards) so know what it is like on both sides of the coin

I can teach you how to trade if tou want so you will stop to think that the loss of sponsorship is the cause of all your problems.

You can PM me, I will give you my price for an intensive lesson.

See you soon.

Good to see you are now admitting I do have a loss of sponsorship.

Now they can finally fix the inequalities that allow teams from large nations get ahead so quickly, and hold teams from small nations back