Subpage under development, new version coming soon!
Subject: [change] Sponsorship between countries
"You don't care about those things, you just want to make the game easier for you. That is why YOU are making a fool out of YOURSELF, with the ranking and the team ratings, things that have nothing to do with the sponsors."
Easier for myself? Even though I have pointed out how much easier it is for anyone in a bigger country. How I showed Damien that he is getting the same sponsorship as agbell even though he is less deserving in every way, even Supporters.
Bear in mind, I'm not trying to take from you, or other large users, I'm trying to have small countries treated the same. And if you were actually smart, you'd realise this would actually help you too.
"I think that sponsorships are determined, in large, by the average fan base of the league."
There is no doubt average supporters are part of the equation, this has not been disputed. This has been known for many years, you aren't bringing anything new to the table. But supporters go up based on the average supporters in your league, so when you join a big country, you join leagues with lots of old users, so you get a rise in supporters faster than a small country when you join leagues with bots, and even the top division has bots.
The new team in the large country is no more deserving to get more supporters than the new team in the small country. They are no more deserving to get more sponsorship just because they joined a league that has more users, who also got their fanclub members artificially boosted when they started. This is the point that has been made over and over and over in this thread.
Sponsorship is not being given to the most deserving teams, but rather, to the biggest nations due to this constant cycle which I just said above, and have said over and over again.
"That is why YOU are making a fool out of YOURSELF, with the ranking and the team ratings, things that have nothing to do with the sponsors."
Actually directly from a DEVs mouth they said RANKING plays a significant part in it, however it appears this is not true because as I stated in the first topic, Agbell had higher ranking than all of Italy, but was getting 25% less.
Read the damn topic, stop trying to attack just because it is me. I was in this game before you ever signed up, and have been having this discussion for over a decade, and have discussed it with some of the best minds in Sokker, who most have left now.
I understand how it works, but you don't want to believe it. I understand the inequalities but you want to say there are none. You still have a lot to learn in this game, so learn to listen, do your own research and see what happens.
Again, you are not wrong about the supporters, but that is part of the reason why the forumla is unfair on small nations, as people are not given sponsorship on being deserving, they are given it based on country size. That and this whole system is a "bottom to top" model.
That is, everything has a baseline from the bottom division in a country, and then it is roughly equal for every promotion. The problem is, when your country only has 3 divisions, you get stuck at the equivalent of Div 4 Poland, of Div 3 Italy etc. It is not insurmountable but for every division you need to make up for, it is an exponential amount of difficulty and skill required to make up for. Or another way of saying it, the game is exponentially easier for a team in a larger country to compete with a top team in a smaller country. This is also why when Australia got a 4th division many years ago, everyones sponsorship money went up. Nothing else changed, just the addition of the league.
So please, keep saying I am just trying to do this for myself, but when multiple small nation users are coming out and saying there are issues, accross multiple threads, realise this is not a me thing, this is a you thing.
I'm trying to make this more fair for me. I am trying to make it more fair for you (despite how you constantly attack me whenever you see my name in the forum). I am trying to make it fair for everyone.
Many people have quit the game due to these issues. Many nations are all but dead because of them. I quit because of these issues, and only came back to reignite some friendships in game (however most left in that timeframe), but when I saw there were new DEVs, I thought, hey, maybe they will actually try to be fair and not just worry about Poland, but I am being proved more and more wrong, despite the fact I backed them up against other users all the way up until the bogus poll results. There are literally multiple posts of me trying to calm tensions with users against the DEVs where I was trying to see the best in them, but was unfortunately all thrown in my face as they are more and more Poland-centric, even moreso than the original DEVs.
So go away and come back when you have new info to bring to the table, because right now you are repeating what is already known, but are using the "EFFECT" of the inequality to try and justify the "AFFECT" of the inequality, which is backwards logic
Easier for myself? Even though I have pointed out how much easier it is for anyone in a bigger country. How I showed Damien that he is getting the same sponsorship as agbell even though he is less deserving in every way, even Supporters.
Bear in mind, I'm not trying to take from you, or other large users, I'm trying to have small countries treated the same. And if you were actually smart, you'd realise this would actually help you too.
"I think that sponsorships are determined, in large, by the average fan base of the league."
There is no doubt average supporters are part of the equation, this has not been disputed. This has been known for many years, you aren't bringing anything new to the table. But supporters go up based on the average supporters in your league, so when you join a big country, you join leagues with lots of old users, so you get a rise in supporters faster than a small country when you join leagues with bots, and even the top division has bots.
The new team in the large country is no more deserving to get more supporters than the new team in the small country. They are no more deserving to get more sponsorship just because they joined a league that has more users, who also got their fanclub members artificially boosted when they started. This is the point that has been made over and over and over in this thread.
Sponsorship is not being given to the most deserving teams, but rather, to the biggest nations due to this constant cycle which I just said above, and have said over and over again.
"That is why YOU are making a fool out of YOURSELF, with the ranking and the team ratings, things that have nothing to do with the sponsors."
Actually directly from a DEVs mouth they said RANKING plays a significant part in it, however it appears this is not true because as I stated in the first topic, Agbell had higher ranking than all of Italy, but was getting 25% less.
Read the damn topic, stop trying to attack just because it is me. I was in this game before you ever signed up, and have been having this discussion for over a decade, and have discussed it with some of the best minds in Sokker, who most have left now.
I understand how it works, but you don't want to believe it. I understand the inequalities but you want to say there are none. You still have a lot to learn in this game, so learn to listen, do your own research and see what happens.
Again, you are not wrong about the supporters, but that is part of the reason why the forumla is unfair on small nations, as people are not given sponsorship on being deserving, they are given it based on country size. That and this whole system is a "bottom to top" model.
That is, everything has a baseline from the bottom division in a country, and then it is roughly equal for every promotion. The problem is, when your country only has 3 divisions, you get stuck at the equivalent of Div 4 Poland, of Div 3 Italy etc. It is not insurmountable but for every division you need to make up for, it is an exponential amount of difficulty and skill required to make up for. Or another way of saying it, the game is exponentially easier for a team in a larger country to compete with a top team in a smaller country. This is also why when Australia got a 4th division many years ago, everyones sponsorship money went up. Nothing else changed, just the addition of the league.
So please, keep saying I am just trying to do this for myself, but when multiple small nation users are coming out and saying there are issues, accross multiple threads, realise this is not a me thing, this is a you thing.
I'm trying to make this more fair for me. I am trying to make it more fair for you (despite how you constantly attack me whenever you see my name in the forum). I am trying to make it fair for everyone.
Many people have quit the game due to these issues. Many nations are all but dead because of them. I quit because of these issues, and only came back to reignite some friendships in game (however most left in that timeframe), but when I saw there were new DEVs, I thought, hey, maybe they will actually try to be fair and not just worry about Poland, but I am being proved more and more wrong, despite the fact I backed them up against other users all the way up until the bogus poll results. There are literally multiple posts of me trying to calm tensions with users against the DEVs where I was trying to see the best in them, but was unfortunately all thrown in my face as they are more and more Poland-centric, even moreso than the original DEVs.
So go away and come back when you have new info to bring to the table, because right now you are repeating what is already known, but are using the "EFFECT" of the inequality to try and justify the "AFFECT" of the inequality, which is backwards logic
Are we talking about 20-30k€ more or less sponsors a week between countries ? It's no longer a topic, it's an obsession :-) I mean sponsors it is peanuts compare to trading/training profits, sponsors usually never cover total wages in all leagues, a 20-30k€ bonus can paid one coach or one top players wages.
Ok the system and calculation can change according to small nations, but seriously : the economic system is not really fair at its base for all, wtf trying to solve a small part.
Let's take just an example. Radical i know, but real in game. A club can make much more profit in just one year by high and swapping tradings than any other club using a "normal" trading for years... We dont talk about 20k€ a week, but many millions € a season just using trading profit !
I dont say your topic is useless, but all of this talk is a really a minor point compare to many other economic point. Sorry. Let's start to increase/decrease a lot sponsors for all, in fair conditions of challenge.
I am disgusted by this post, so much lying, delusion, condescension, manipulation and insults...
I am not gonna waste my time debunking all your crap. I hope that Raul gave up on reading your posts because he has smarter things to do.
I am not gonna waste my time debunking all your crap. I hope that Raul gave up on reading your posts because he has smarter things to do.
I understand that competition is important and must be rewarded, however I also think that good planning and management must also be rewarded... I am in my fourth season, so my sponsor club is small (1338) and I have been growing. However, with the redesigning of the leagues I feel that my income reduced too much. In my country one division was eliminated and there were also some replacements (teams by bots... and some bots by new users), things that will have weakened my division (III).
My sponsor income reduced too much, my economy is bleeding out... and plans that I have made to grow are impossible to sustain. I was assuming to grow by 10k per week, nothing ambituos I guess (about 2%), on the congrary my income fell by almost 25% in almost one month... with 2 victories in the league and an away tie, second in my league... i was eliminated from cup, but no one expect me to win..
My full topic is here,
https://sokker.org/forum_topic/ID_forum/1261/ID_topic/3449070/pg/0#new
At this point, I feel punished by the redesigned of the league... and I also understand why this topic matters... that is, sponsor income is crucial to close gaps among countries and richer and poorer teams...
So there are cases like mine, in which these adjustments do not make sense
Moreover, new teams are joining my division... but they may join fourth division... this is also lowering my income
why don't make just stronger bots... in lower two divisions? and keep money as before??
(edited)
My sponsor income reduced too much, my economy is bleeding out... and plans that I have made to grow are impossible to sustain. I was assuming to grow by 10k per week, nothing ambituos I guess (about 2%), on the congrary my income fell by almost 25% in almost one month... with 2 victories in the league and an away tie, second in my league... i was eliminated from cup, but no one expect me to win..
My full topic is here,
https://sokker.org/forum_topic/ID_forum/1261/ID_topic/3449070/pg/0#new
At this point, I feel punished by the redesigned of the league... and I also understand why this topic matters... that is, sponsor income is crucial to close gaps among countries and richer and poorer teams...
So there are cases like mine, in which these adjustments do not make sense
Moreover, new teams are joining my division... but they may join fourth division... this is also lowering my income
why don't make just stronger bots... in lower two divisions? and keep money as before??
(edited)
"I am disgusted by this post, so much lying, delusion, condescension, manipulation and insults..."
Well if you stop talking in this thread, then that will fix all the lying, delusion, condescension, manipulation and insults.
Literally every thing you have said has been proven wrong because you don't actually know what you are talking about. I have hard facts from many users now, further proving the issue
"
Well if you stop talking in this thread, then that will fix all the lying, delusion, condescension, manipulation and insults.
Literally every thing you have said has been proven wrong because you don't actually know what you are talking about. I have hard facts from many users now, further proving the issue
"
I think the big issue with your situation is that a whole division was deleted. Now Premiera C is the 2nd lowest division, so it is seen as equivalent to Polska league V. whereas before the loss of the division, it was seen as Polska league IV.
This is the issue with the bottom up approach of the sponsorship multipliers, rather than the top down approach. You lost Sponsorship purely because a league was removed.
But now spare a thought for smaller countries with only 3 divisions. They have it even worse again as their top league is only seen as Poland div IV (ie what you were before the change, that is what small countries top team is seen as by the code, yet you still had 2 more promotions you could go, a small country didn't).
This is why this topic exists, because the code is flawed and it needs fixing. It needs to be a top down code, not a bottom up one. A bottom up one only works when all countries have the same number of divisions, but a top down one works regardless of the number of divisions
This is the issue with the bottom up approach of the sponsorship multipliers, rather than the top down approach. You lost Sponsorship purely because a league was removed.
But now spare a thought for smaller countries with only 3 divisions. They have it even worse again as their top league is only seen as Poland div IV (ie what you were before the change, that is what small countries top team is seen as by the code, yet you still had 2 more promotions you could go, a small country didn't).
This is why this topic exists, because the code is flawed and it needs fixing. It needs to be a top down code, not a bottom up one. A bottom up one only works when all countries have the same number of divisions, but a top down one works regardless of the number of divisions
I'm trying my hardest. Many small country users know the issue exists. Some have replied saying they couldn't be bothered arguing it because many large country users are either blind to it, or don't want it changed because it helps them.
Others have come to this, and other threads, and stated their piece, only for it to be ignored or not taken seriously.
A business is only as good as its leaders, and regardless of how good the product is, if they can't accept when there is a fatal fault, then it will fail, and online games are exactly the same.
87% of the sokker managers have already left, many of which created post after post after post in the bugs and ideas thread with either nothing coming of it, or being flat out rejected, so moved to other games.
I want it to be fixed, and I will keep fighting for equality for all users, with reward being given to those who deserve it, not just because they joined the right nation, but if it doesn't happen, the game will be the one who suffers, not me.
Others have come to this, and other threads, and stated their piece, only for it to be ignored or not taken seriously.
A business is only as good as its leaders, and regardless of how good the product is, if they can't accept when there is a fatal fault, then it will fail, and online games are exactly the same.
87% of the sokker managers have already left, many of which created post after post after post in the bugs and ideas thread with either nothing coming of it, or being flat out rejected, so moved to other games.
I want it to be fixed, and I will keep fighting for equality for all users, with reward being given to those who deserve it, not just because they joined the right nation, but if it doesn't happen, the game will be the one who suffers, not me.
I am in the country with only 3 divisions. 4th division just got deleted.
Money from sponsors now: 367 321 $. (best supporters' mood)
Money from sponsors right before the deletion of the 4th division: 363 371 $. (best supporters' mood)
What bottom up approach?
I wish you knew what you are talking about, or as you would put it, "that you were actually smart."
Money from sponsors now: 367 321 $. (best supporters' mood)
Money from sponsors right before the deletion of the 4th division: 363 371 $. (best supporters' mood)
What bottom up approach?
I wish you knew what you are talking about, or as you would put it, "that you were actually smart."
Bye _james, thanks for proving my initial post in this thread.
Time to walk along as you said you would before you continue making a fool of yourself.
Time to walk along as you said you would before you continue making a fool of yourself.
Bye _james, thanks for proving my initial post in this thread.
Hahaha
The delusion is strong in this one.
How? Please, tell me how I proved it? Please?
Hahaha
The delusion is strong in this one.
How? Please, tell me how I proved it? Please?
I'm sick of explaining every little detail to you. Do some reading, come back when you can form a complete sentence, maybe learn some basic math.
But for now, you are just attempting to spam this topic so do as you said you would do and leave, or don't, I really don't care, because others are smart enough to see what you are trying to do, and see the facts that I have been pointed out with examples sent by users
(edited)
But for now, you are just attempting to spam this topic so do as you said you would do and leave, or don't, I really don't care, because others are smart enough to see what you are trying to do, and see the facts that I have been pointed out with examples sent by users
(edited)
May be we can mix top down and top up approach...
having and average will get The point to both... small country users and devs
having and average will get The point to both... small country users and devs
Hey, achmid, I've been doing some reading, and I was wandering if you could explain something to me, since you already explained so much to me, sensei...
Here is your response to my claim that the sponsorships are largely determined by the average fan base of the league:
There is no doubt average supporters are part of the equation, this has not been disputed. This has been known for many years, you aren't bringing anything new to the table.
But I noticed that you didn't mention supporters even once in your initial post. Even though the average fan base basically determines the strength of the leagues, and all you did was comparing leagues.
You were all like, ranking this, ranking that, ranking blah blah blah.
So, I am wondering, why?
Did you lie that this was know to you "for many years?"
Or did you deliberately avoid talking about this to push your agenda?
Here is your response to my claim that the sponsorships are largely determined by the average fan base of the league:
There is no doubt average supporters are part of the equation, this has not been disputed. This has been known for many years, you aren't bringing anything new to the table.
But I noticed that you didn't mention supporters even once in your initial post. Even though the average fan base basically determines the strength of the leagues, and all you did was comparing leagues.
You were all like, ranking this, ranking that, ranking blah blah blah.
So, I am wondering, why?
Did you lie that this was know to you "for many years?"
Or did you deliberately avoid talking about this to push your agenda?
Here you are just trying to create fights...again.
If you read the posts, I have actually already answered this. Go back and read the posts. And if the MODs do their job, you will be banned from posting for trying to cause fights.
But your questions have already been answered, I'm not answering them again
If you read the posts, I have actually already answered this. Go back and read the posts. And if the MODs do their job, you will be banned from posting for trying to cause fights.
But your questions have already been answered, I'm not answering them again
Instead of calling for some bans you should better go to sleep as I believe it is 2.30 am in Canberra.
Good night dude !
Good night dude !