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Subject: [change] update age

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2020-09-03 16:53:02
timcook to All
At the moment, "After each season, your players get older by one year" and "The junior is ready to join the first team, you can promote them to the first team".
If it's in the beginning of the season not a problem, but if happened at the end of the season or you can throw away or he will have a low value

I propose when the junior is ready to join the first team, fix his birthday (number of the match, not real date) and for the current season, the age can't change, since the next season, the age will be changed in his birthday (same number match of the previous season).
2020-09-03 19:09:32
i hope it will be fixed in overall youth school update,
2020-09-03 19:13:36
-1, I like current system
2020-09-07 10:28:46
Well the whole system of juniors need to re design...

1) Boring Junior league. Juniors games are un watchable, skills are too poor for a descent tactic/watch. 4-3-3 and long balls and runs, done !

2) 90% of juniors are worthless, in and out of school. Only 5% get talent or skills (and more rarely both. 1-2%)

3) The vast majority of schools are in deficit, because it takes a lot of luck (so around 5%) and time to have valuable juniors and you should train them several seasons in your own team and spend money again for training (that some users forget to calculate) to make you school profitable. Of course, with of lot of luck (1-2%) juniors can be sell directly. Otherwise, we might as well go directly to the market, it's simpler and cheaper than Young School.

4) Juniors who leaves school at the age of 19 or 20y are for the most part worthless, due to the limitations of the training system (10), and the linear/age progression system of sokker.

5) Even with an extraterrestrial coach, the evaluation of a junior's progress is near impossible, because of the random "blind" level system. It is necessary to use statistical tools (linear regression) and to have at least 20 weeks at school to get an idea of a junior's potential.

6) Juniors, IN ALL CASE are uncompetitive at start. The total number of players cannot exceed 9 to 10 skill levels (in best cases, in few random skills). This means that these players unless they play in lower divisions have no interest to play for winning. Those are only valuable for (friendly) training games and all the "farmer" teams eco-system during 1-4 seasons. That's mean : a lot of boring uncompetitive challenge for most of us (Contrary to what the DEVs wanted :-p).

7) And last but not least +1 to age update... Because of the linear system of progression and age, all the juniors who arrive at the end of the season (not only in week 0!) have almost no chance to leave school at a good level.

Sorry for the off-topic. But I am annoyed by the lack of analysis and devs ideas on this subject.
(edited)
2020-09-07 10:47:55
In my case, I love this system, it's like Fifa game when you open the envelope in ultimate team. I think this is one of the most exciting parts of sokker.

90% of juniors are worthless, in and out of school. Only 5% get talent or skills (and more rarely both. 1-2%)

This is very real. Not all players in real life are able to succeed. Most of them don't end up playing to professional football. It would be very boring and unreal.
And still we have thousands of divine players...if you change this, sokker would have millions of top players. It wouldn't be funny.

IMO changing this system, the game would be much more boring.
(edited)
2020-09-07 11:02:49
-1

The game is random enough. Giving juniors random birthdays would increase the difference between "lucky" and "unlucky" youth schools.

Team management would get more complicated. It is easier to make plans when all players age at the same time.

And finally, age update is an event. This game needs more events that will make people talk, not less.
2020-09-07 11:07:02
+1, and it would change the essence of the game.
2020-09-07 11:08:51
-1

The solution si simpler: let the juniors come with up to 2 levels higher at the end of the season. This way it wouldn't matter the week, every pull would have the same chances to be a good junior
(edited)
2020-09-07 11:12:45
well, im not typically against 5%, i'm ok, but you don't see the whole picture :

1) they are too weak at start - even this 5% - to play competitive pro matchs. But, due to the training system (the current and the futur s one!) we have to play "training" match with "weak" players to make them valuable and profitable . Read point (6)

2) Most of the schools lose money. Read point 3. What's the deal ? I keep open my school but just for "fun" and NT community. The eco-system works (i.e. renewing players on the market) only thanks to loss-making schools :D

I like the "open the envelope" too ;-) But we can touch skilled players fluently ( i dont speak about the "GOAT"s ), and weekly :D
In sokker we need years (IRL) for GOATS and 3-4 seasons (of sokker) to get 4-5 descent youngs :)

2020-09-07 11:25:26
they are too weak at start

Yes, I understand your point of view but it's complicated.

Most of the schools lose money

I think this is not true, and I am not very lucky with juniors, but if you get one good junior, you will make profitable youth school for years...

I like the "open the envelope" too ;-) But we can touch skilled players fluently

I prefer current system...I like the surprise.
2020-09-07 15:05:53
I agree 100% with rapelo.

Btw, last Thursday, before the age update, Landfried Olaf was a 17y old player, who just came out of junior school - at the end of the season.
3 days later he was 18y and he was sold for 14,7 million €.

If you use the filters of https://www.sokker-manager.net, you can see that Landfried Olaf was not a single case. There are dozens of juniors, who were sold for more than 10 million €. (40 u18-players for over 10 millions in the last season and again 40 in the season before.)
2020-09-07 15:48:55
Without going any further you have this profit with juniors.

Total: 35 937 667 €

On the other hand, I always recommend not to start youth school at the beginning. However, some users explained that they hired an incredible coach and they made profit...thus, it can be profitable even from the beginning.
(edited)
2020-09-07 16:00:02
Some users have all the luck :O. I've never gotten more than a brilliant junior...maybe one day haha.
Even so it's almost always profitable, so I don't see the need of changing this system.
It's good that not all the players can play "sokker professional football", some of them maybe end up working in another profession like IRL xD.
(edited)
2020-09-07 17:31:43
Most of the schools lose money

Total: 35 937 667 €

That's tricky :D

First, you have to take away the price of the juniors (1k€ / weeks / youngs) + wage of the coach (a "serious" coach is at least 35k€/weeks), *16 by season. Let's say we got an average of 20 youngs, that's a Total of : 20k€ + 35k€ * 16 = 880k€ by season. With the best coach (level 16) that's 1 million at least...

Secondly, If you dont sell directly your young player (usually good manager dont sell directly talents to get far more profit) we need to take away the wages of young player during x seasons.

Now , lets look at this team.

Total transfer : 51M€
The older player is 41y old, we can say -approximatively- that this Young School is open since 25 seasons.

Let's calculate, based on average expenditure (above) : 880k€ *25 seasons. Total : 22M

At this point the profit is not 51M€ but 21M€. Not bad. Not incredible too, 840k€ profit by season. Buying/selling young players on the market is more lucrative and quicker.

But that's not the end. (Point 2) We have to remove wages for training the young after the young school. Juniors who bring in the most money are trained 1 to 4 seasons on his own team before the sale. So 21M€ profit is an optimum and optimistic estimation. It impossible to calculate at this point since managers never estimate the price on market when a junior comes out of the school. Maybe LOS chavos a TOPE C.f win around 880k€ by season, maybe this club loose money despite 51M€ sells !

I went further in a french topic. Managers post their expenses and incomes. And for most of them, (without the second point !) it was already a very low profit or looses.
2020-09-07 17:37:11
If you use the filters of https://www.sokker-manager.net, you can see that Landfried Olaf was not a single case. There are dozens of juniors, who were sold for more than 10 million €. (40 u18-players for over 10 millions in the last season and again 40 in the season

Dozens of juniors, that 's a dozen against hundreds of junior schools and thousands of juniors coming out each season :D
2020-09-07 19:45:44
But Is it a must that YS is profitable for everyone? It should depend on luck, or IRL all teams have all seasons great Juniors? I think the opposite...even Top teams don't have big profits selling juniors, but maybe we ever can get a Messi for our team or sell him...A lot of users train their juniors and they make profit playing in their teams (like Messi in Barcelona who is sport and economical profitability, not for sell).

On the other hand, I have those profits because I've been training a lot of them in first team but I am not very lucky with juniors...so I think it's almost always profitable.
Moreover, with new training system juniors will be more important and current system is ok.
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