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Subject: [idea] Superbots
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_james to
All
I really didn't want to publish this, but since some people won't give up on their ideas about sponsorships and merging, I have to offer an alternative solution to some of the issues.
How will it work?
Lineups
These bot teams would have better players, of course. Players would be randomly generated, with limits to fit the desired strength of the bots and to have usable players.
For now, I propose 10 superbots per nation, in 3 tiers:
- Tier 1: 2 superbots with 55-65 average mark.
- Tier 1: 4 superbots with 45-55 average mark.
- Tier 1: 4 superbots with 35-45 average mark.
2 new players would be generated each season at the age of 24, and retired at 33. They would play 9 seasons, so the superbots would always have 18 players (11 + 7 on the bench).
Tactics
Basic tactics should be improved for superbots to make them more challenging and more interesting to compete against. At least, straighten the defense and push the strikers forward.
Supporters
Superbots would be stronger, but still a little bland a predictable, so I wouldn't give them ability to grow unlimited supporters' clubs. I would limit the size of the supporters' clubs, but give them more than normal bots (200, if I am correct) because numbers of supporters determine the sponsorships in the leagues, as far as I know.
I propose something like this:
- Tier 1: 1000 - 1500 supporters.
- Tier 1: 700 - 1000 supporters.
- Tier 1: 500 - 700 supporters.
How will it improve the game?
This would improve the situation is smaller Sokker nations, where it is pretty boring to play.
The following would improve the experience of users:
- More interesting competition, playing against bots with 17 average mark in the 1st league is ridiculous;
- Bigger sponsorship earnings, so that teams from smaller nations can be more competitive on the market. Also, when a team reaches an international competition it will be better prepared;
- Superbots would also be a buffer between old and new users. If a country has a several old users, weaker superbots would be pushed down to 2nd leagues and provide a nice challenge to new users before they encounter seasoned managers;
- No more crappy bots in CC.
How is it a better solution?
Other ideas with a goal to improve situation in small nations are to change sponsorship formula and to merge small nations.
Current sponsorship formula works well, but nations with weak competition earn very little from sponsors. Suggestions to change the formula are favoring teams that play in easy leagues. This idea keeps the same formula but increases the competition and sponsorships in smaller nations.
Problems with merging nations arise when they are supposed to be unmerged. If your country is a part of a merged league system with 50-60 users, and it reaches enough users (let's say 20) to have a standalone league system, you will be "punished" for that with lower incomes from sponsors.
(edited)
How will it work?
Lineups
These bot teams would have better players, of course. Players would be randomly generated, with limits to fit the desired strength of the bots and to have usable players.
For now, I propose 10 superbots per nation, in 3 tiers:
- Tier 1: 2 superbots with 55-65 average mark.
- Tier 1: 4 superbots with 45-55 average mark.
- Tier 1: 4 superbots with 35-45 average mark.
2 new players would be generated each season at the age of 24, and retired at 33. They would play 9 seasons, so the superbots would always have 18 players (11 + 7 on the bench).
Tactics
Basic tactics should be improved for superbots to make them more challenging and more interesting to compete against. At least, straighten the defense and push the strikers forward.
Supporters
Superbots would be stronger, but still a little bland a predictable, so I wouldn't give them ability to grow unlimited supporters' clubs. I would limit the size of the supporters' clubs, but give them more than normal bots (200, if I am correct) because numbers of supporters determine the sponsorships in the leagues, as far as I know.
I propose something like this:
- Tier 1: 1000 - 1500 supporters.
- Tier 1: 700 - 1000 supporters.
- Tier 1: 500 - 700 supporters.
How will it improve the game?
This would improve the situation is smaller Sokker nations, where it is pretty boring to play.
The following would improve the experience of users:
- More interesting competition, playing against bots with 17 average mark in the 1st league is ridiculous;
- Bigger sponsorship earnings, so that teams from smaller nations can be more competitive on the market. Also, when a team reaches an international competition it will be better prepared;
- Superbots would also be a buffer between old and new users. If a country has a several old users, weaker superbots would be pushed down to 2nd leagues and provide a nice challenge to new users before they encounter seasoned managers;
- No more crappy bots in CC.
How is it a better solution?
Other ideas with a goal to improve situation in small nations are to change sponsorship formula and to merge small nations.
Current sponsorship formula works well, but nations with weak competition earn very little from sponsors. Suggestions to change the formula are favoring teams that play in easy leagues. This idea keeps the same formula but increases the competition and sponsorships in smaller nations.
Problems with merging nations arise when they are supposed to be unmerged. If your country is a part of a merged league system with 50-60 users, and it reaches enough users (let's say 20) to have a standalone league system, you will be "punished" for that with lower incomes from sponsors.
(edited)
I remember reading that the devs direction was to delete the bots (I can't remember in which dev diary).
So... But if bots continue to exist I think it is indeed necessary to make bots smarter...
Honestly bots exist to compensate for the lack of human players, so I don't think it's good news to create (even better) bots.
In my opinion, I would rather have the devs revise their mind and allow humans to manage multiple teams as I have often suggested. There are no bots more interesting than humans.
So... But if bots continue to exist I think it is indeed necessary to make bots smarter...
Honestly bots exist to compensate for the lack of human players, so I don't think it's good news to create (even better) bots.
In my opinion, I would rather have the devs revise their mind and allow humans to manage multiple teams as I have often suggested. There are no bots more interesting than humans.
I remember reading that the devs direction was to delete the bots (I can't remember in which dev diary).
If you mean removing bots completely from the game, they never said that.
In my opinion, I would rather have the devs revise their mind and allow humans to manage multiple teams as I have often suggested. There are no bots more interesting than humans.
I know my idea is not perfect, real users are simply better than bots, but what you want goes against their primary rules, you can only have a team in your country of origin or your country of residence.
If you mean removing bots completely from the game, they never said that.
In my opinion, I would rather have the devs revise their mind and allow humans to manage multiple teams as I have often suggested. There are no bots more interesting than humans.
I know my idea is not perfect, real users are simply better than bots, but what you want goes against their primary rules, you can only have a team in your country of origin or your country of residence.
It's certainly better than the current system and would be a bit of an improvement (for the reasons you listed).
Don't want to move the topic too much away from this but just with the unmerging. I think 2 divisions full would need to be the cut-off so that the penalty isn't great. One other suggestion for a reason to want to unmerge (besides just pride) could be that for as long as it works, all unmerged countries get two or more teams in the CC, and merged countries need to fight for what is left/only get 1 from their nation (who is their cup winner)
Anyway that's all I wanted to say about that.
If a merge of small country leagues does not go ahead, then this, or similar, would definitely be an improvement on the current system.
The last I heard was when they were still talking bot clearance, they were actually going to make all bots cleared and at bot level, which is the exact opposite of this, and the exact opposite of what the game needs.
Don't want to move the topic too much away from this but just with the unmerging. I think 2 divisions full would need to be the cut-off so that the penalty isn't great. One other suggestion for a reason to want to unmerge (besides just pride) could be that for as long as it works, all unmerged countries get two or more teams in the CC, and merged countries need to fight for what is left/only get 1 from their nation (who is their cup winner)
Anyway that's all I wanted to say about that.
If a merge of small country leagues does not go ahead, then this, or similar, would definitely be an improvement on the current system.
The last I heard was when they were still talking bot clearance, they were actually going to make all bots cleared and at bot level, which is the exact opposite of this, and the exact opposite of what the game needs.
-1 do not like when new users do not promote instead of bots or having bots in high division
I remember them wanting to reset bots that were once real users and sell the players. Yea, if you are in a country with a small number of users you kinda want to keep that bot, better than having that 17 average mark bot.
And yes, more CC slots for an unmerged nation reduces the "punishment."
It is hard to predict how the user numbers will behave. Breaking off 2 nations is more reasonable, or splitting the merged system into two (e.g. one system with 10 nations into 2 with 5 nations) and gradually moving towards standalone systems, but you can't know how the user numbers will grow in individual countries.
Imagine an uniform distribution in merged leagues, a nation has 1 team per league (1 in 1st league, 4 in 2nd division, and 16 in 3rd). Nation breaks off and ends up with an ugly power discrepancy. That sucks.
And yes, more CC slots for an unmerged nation reduces the "punishment."
It is hard to predict how the user numbers will behave. Breaking off 2 nations is more reasonable, or splitting the merged system into two (e.g. one system with 10 nations into 2 with 5 nations) and gradually moving towards standalone systems, but you can't know how the user numbers will grow in individual countries.
Imagine an uniform distribution in merged leagues, a nation has 1 team per league (1 in 1st league, 4 in 2nd division, and 16 in 3rd). Nation breaks off and ends up with an ugly power discrepancy. That sucks.
A long time ago I also have posted an idea to make playing against bots more fun, as there where many. Now more bots are/will be deleted but still many remain.
Less tactics (5 is enough, that will cover all normal line ups), indeed better tactics, players at their right possitions, and bots radomly use 1 of those tactics.
But that was without looking at sponsorship like you do. I think it is a good idea to make sure bots drop as quickly to the bottom league, but if it can be done withour ruining clubs finances it is even better.
Less tactics (5 is enough, that will cover all normal line ups), indeed better tactics, players at their right possitions, and bots radomly use 1 of those tactics.
But that was without looking at sponsorship like you do. I think it is a good idea to make sure bots drop as quickly to the bottom league, but if it can be done withour ruining clubs finances it is even better.
It's a good plain but think it would be more interesting remove "Tier 1: 2 superbots with 55-65 average mark", mainly in countries with several users - bots would be too much strong and hard to beat, even to very competitive human users.
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