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Subject: Fans expectations
That can be countered by increasing the drop for high fanclub teams and decreasing the rise for high fanclub teams.
So the lower your fanclub, the higher the rise of your fanbase should be, like it is now. AAnd vice versa with high fanclub teams. BUT
The difference lies in the prevention of drops whenever you are still fulfilling the expectations, regardless of the opponents! It's not your fault your opponents are bad. So your fanbase should not be suffering from it either!
If you lose, well, that's another matter, but if you're winning...no way you should be losing fans
So the lower your fanclub, the higher the rise of your fanbase should be, like it is now. AAnd vice versa with high fanclub teams. BUT
The difference lies in the prevention of drops whenever you are still fulfilling the expectations, regardless of the opponents! It's not your fault your opponents are bad. So your fanbase should not be suffering from it either!
If you lose, well, that's another matter, but if you're winning...no way you should be losing fans
It’s always been an issue for leagues that contain bots/new users etc, even back in the old system of 8 team leagues. It does hurt smaller nations worse though because they can’t promote out of it.
That being said, it was all balanced around the 8 team league and the old fan mood system before these new expectations came in. So when it was common to have madly in love fans fan numbers would gradually increase or flatline off. Others would gain with reasonable fan mood and some new clubs would grow even losing everything.
I think this has been unbalanced by the change to 12 team leagues and the fact that the fans expectation system has been changed so that it’s very difficult for teams to have madly in love supporters which was kind of the basis of how the fan club size was built around.
Taking my side id have still been gaining fans under the system prior to the expectations which in turn would mean Achmid would lose less. I’m actually in a position where I can’t gain fans to get to Achmid/agbell without knocking them off and causing them to lose more then they already do.
It’s a case of they tinkered with a system that was interconnected with so many things and only changed one piece of it and said that will do. Pretty much every development they’ve done.
It’s basically impossible for clubs to gain fans without another side losing them now, especially when so many sides in the same league have the same expectations just to reach the base level of satisfaction. 3/4 teams with podium/vice championship expectations and 3/4 doesn’t go into the so someone is losing out already. The others just keep parity because there’s only one spot better than vice championship and if they achieve that the other side gets hit even harder.
I think if meeting expectations weren’t punished as harshly because they’re not exceeding expectations and simply meeting them then it might be a better balance. Alternatively you’d need to rebalance the fan club size calculation to adjust for the fact that for the majority of teams they can’t get above a certain fan mood.
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That being said, it was all balanced around the 8 team league and the old fan mood system before these new expectations came in. So when it was common to have madly in love fans fan numbers would gradually increase or flatline off. Others would gain with reasonable fan mood and some new clubs would grow even losing everything.
I think this has been unbalanced by the change to 12 team leagues and the fact that the fans expectation system has been changed so that it’s very difficult for teams to have madly in love supporters which was kind of the basis of how the fan club size was built around.
Taking my side id have still been gaining fans under the system prior to the expectations which in turn would mean Achmid would lose less. I’m actually in a position where I can’t gain fans to get to Achmid/agbell without knocking them off and causing them to lose more then they already do.
It’s a case of they tinkered with a system that was interconnected with so many things and only changed one piece of it and said that will do. Pretty much every development they’ve done.
It’s basically impossible for clubs to gain fans without another side losing them now, especially when so many sides in the same league have the same expectations just to reach the base level of satisfaction. 3/4 teams with podium/vice championship expectations and 3/4 doesn’t go into the so someone is losing out already. The others just keep parity because there’s only one spot better than vice championship and if they achieve that the other side gets hit even harder.
I think if meeting expectations weren’t punished as harshly because they’re not exceeding expectations and simply meeting them then it might be a better balance. Alternatively you’d need to rebalance the fan club size calculation to adjust for the fact that for the majority of teams they can’t get above a certain fan mood.
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All that is true, but this was done on purpose to stop the inflation created by 1 extra league match / week.
Financially you don't get less compared to pre-12 team leagues.
Financially you don't get less compared to pre-12 team leagues.
Yeah I understand that part and what the intentions were. I don’t doubt that it may balance against the extra revenue from games but it would be a good case study as I’m not sure if I’m better off under this system or the other, as fan club size and fan mood impact all forms of revenue. I do feel worse off but that doesn’t mean I necessarily am. Just doesn’t look good when numbers start decreasing when you’ve done everything you can possibly do (I’m not at that stage as there are still things I can do to improve, but I do sympathise for those that are).
well... I had expectations to be 1st, and I was constantly 1st
why are my fans still stuck here
I mean... what the quack.
is there a way to get them to be madly in love, or is being Champion that lost 0 league matches not enough?
why are my fans still stuck here
I mean... what the quack.
is there a way to get them to be madly in love, or is being Champion that lost 0 league matches not enough?
I do not understand 70% fulfillment
Expectations win the league - I won the league.
How can it be better than that?
Expectations win the league - I won the league.
How can it be better than that?
70%-80% is currently a very high mood level, you shouldn't compare it to what mood was before (almost everyone with 5/7 - 7/7 happiness)
now mood level is lower and thanks to that the inflation caused by extra weekly game was stopped
now mood level is lower and thanks to that the inflation caused by extra weekly game was stopped
are you serious?
expectations from last season were top half - done
this season champion - done
recent matches - 100%
am I missing something or this makes 0 sense?
Like if a team with very low number of supportes compared to others, also rankings way from the best - wins the league with 0 losses, how is it possible to be on 79%?
Who gets a 90% or more? what should be done? win interglactic cup? be able to bench press 120kg? declare myself as non binary hamster?
This is just plain wrong and makes no sense.
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expectations from last season were top half - done
this season champion - done
recent matches - 100%
am I missing something or this makes 0 sense?
Like if a team with very low number of supportes compared to others, also rankings way from the best - wins the league with 0 losses, how is it possible to be on 79%?
Who gets a 90% or more? what should be done? win interglactic cup? be able to bench press 120kg? declare myself as non binary hamster?
This is just plain wrong and makes no sense.
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if the scale is wrong, you fix it... saying 79% is ok for being on top of the table for 90% of season and winning the championship is wrong, and I see no way to defend you stance other than saying "logic? this is sokker bro", which I would say I respect as an argument :D
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Well, you have a greedy economist in your staff! :D
If you thought that I'm joking when I said that you have too much money - no, I didn't!
If you thought that I'm joking when I said that you have too much money - no, I didn't!
Who gets a 90% or more? what should be done?
You'd have to surpass your expectations. Which is, of course, quite a challenge for you given that yours is "Championship" :p
Much have been said and written about the expectations - none of this is new. I think borkos simply described how it works, that's all.
You'd have to surpass your expectations. Which is, of course, quite a challenge for you given that yours is "Championship" :p
Much have been said and written about the expectations - none of this is new. I think borkos simply described how it works, that's all.
I'm just telling you how and why it works like this
They wanted to counter the inflation, that's how they did it, it obviously worked since the inflation stopped
They could just add a 10% on surface to every fanmood so it would look more shiny, but what would be the point? It's supposed to work well in terms of game economics.
That's in general.
In particular, I agree that the "1st place expectation" being limited in terms of surpassing it is quite illogical. As far as I know in theory it's possible to get higher level if there's a huge difference in points between 1st and 2nd but that's also illogical since the results of 2nd team are out of your hand.
IMO it should be based on points, for example 1st place + 20/22 wins = max expectations fulfilment.
They wanted to counter the inflation, that's how they did it, it obviously worked since the inflation stopped
They could just add a 10% on surface to every fanmood so it would look more shiny, but what would be the point? It's supposed to work well in terms of game economics.
That's in general.
In particular, I agree that the "1st place expectation" being limited in terms of surpassing it is quite illogical. As far as I know in theory it's possible to get higher level if there's a huge difference in points between 1st and 2nd but that's also illogical since the results of 2nd team are out of your hand.
IMO it should be based on points, for example 1st place + 20/22 wins = max expectations fulfilment.
I like that idea.
I'm not entirely convinced that scaling it to a 12-team league is the best way to do it and just punishes teams that are overperforming. It should be national, not league based.
If you take Avon in England, who are probably around 20th overall in the country but just promoted to the Prem. Next season they're going to get killed and be judged on where they sit in the top 12, when in truth the fact they're in the top 12 at all is an overperformance and should be reflected in their fan mood.
I'm not entirely convinced that scaling it to a 12-team league is the best way to do it and just punishes teams that are overperforming. It should be national, not league based.
If you take Avon in England, who are probably around 20th overall in the country but just promoted to the Prem. Next season they're going to get killed and be judged on where they sit in the top 12, when in truth the fact they're in the top 12 at all is an overperformance and should be reflected in their fan mood.
But that's the good side of the change, so I don't see the issue.
They won instead of odds against them = they get max season 1 fulfilment.
S2 after promotion for half of season previous season (S1) fulfilment is more important than S2 fulfilment.
And they will most probably have very low expectations for S2 anyway so if they get any points the fanmood shouldn't get terrible. They will have "Brave fight for any points".
The "overachievers" are treated better in new system, underachievers (especially those who don't spend their money on squad) are treated worse in new system.
Yes it would be nice to create a bigger fanmood/expectations system taking into accounts more factors than just the league, but also the overall level in the country, the "age" of the account, the real strength of opponents and so on but that would be a very complicated thing to do properly. It's better to be realistic, the current one was already created / fixed by Geston for free during his spare time. And even small things take a lot of time here and even simple things are messed by during coding / implementation.
Only changes I would hope for would be addition of national and international cups into the expectations (with much lower impact than league games)
They won instead of odds against them = they get max season 1 fulfilment.
S2 after promotion for half of season previous season (S1) fulfilment is more important than S2 fulfilment.
And they will most probably have very low expectations for S2 anyway so if they get any points the fanmood shouldn't get terrible. They will have "Brave fight for any points".
The "overachievers" are treated better in new system, underachievers (especially those who don't spend their money on squad) are treated worse in new system.
Yes it would be nice to create a bigger fanmood/expectations system taking into accounts more factors than just the league, but also the overall level in the country, the "age" of the account, the real strength of opponents and so on but that would be a very complicated thing to do properly. It's better to be realistic, the current one was already created / fixed by Geston for free during his spare time. And even small things take a lot of time here and even simple things are messed by during coding / implementation.
Only changes I would hope for would be addition of national and international cups into the expectations (with much lower impact than league games)
Same problem with you my friend or very similar,Ι had a conversation with other user who promote to the highest division of Greek league and he takes 260 193€ per week form the sponsors.I won Greek cup and the championship(i made the double) and sponsors pay me 257.677 €.How the hell is happend that?Sponsore must pay me at least 120000 € more and of course level of satisfaction with fulfillment expectations and mood must be over than 90%