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Subject: Fix randoms in Sokker [bug]
The player wasn't good because he had too much training to go to reach a decent level. That's why raising the ceiling will help.
Imo each pull needs to have at least 1 ceiling skill. Which one can still be random
Imo each pull needs to have at least 1 ceiling skill. Which one can still be random
If they are triple brilliant at age 21 on the striker skills... not so pointless I guess...
Just to make an example...
as well as 3xbrilliant in def, pm and striker with 0 at pace. That would be a really useful player :)
Just to make an example...
as well as 3xbrilliant in def, pm and striker with 0 at pace. That would be a really useful player :)
For the fun and for the "proof of concept" of Corrected randoms, I've just launch a Random junior Battle simulator on sktables.org
Happy rand battles !
https://www.sktables.org/battle
(edited)
Happy rand battles !
https://www.sktables.org/battle
(edited)
It should not be a certainty that the player will be good with balanced skill distribution, but for sure a possibility. Now every 20 and 21 y old player coming out of the youth squad is for sure useless, regardless of talent and skill distribution
Useless for a club of your level, but there are plenty of clubs who can benefit from those players.
If you want to grow fast, those are not the players you need and starting teams need to grow fast. I can give you plenty of cheap alternatives to train which are much younger. But those guys have too long catching up to do at pace before gett8ng somewhere. 20+ pulls are totally useless in Sokker...even for starting teams. If you believe otherwise, I think you need to re-evaluate your training regime.
Juytt, your claim glosses over the fact that in 5 weeks there are actually up to 30 players to be drafted into the academy. So these missing ones obviously didn't get an age of 18 and above, is that correct? Why are you excluding them from your seeding calculations?
Everybody likes to forget other managers have most things the same way. If your lot improves, everyone else's will too and it'll be down to tactics and luck a degree more. And would you be satisfied with a level-0 16-year-old? Hardly likely. The youth team is for that you can get a fun extra Sokker game per week, and you can get your players from anywhere. Even if these youngsters not good enough for you, you can grow and sell them and accumulate a kitty.
On the other hand, in the youth reform topic you weren't looking at the mechanics of rating and player progress which SO many players are superstitious about - but instead suggested managers should rather coax themselves into thinking they can achieve reliability if they cling to the linear model of player improvement via correlation coefficients. it's the expectation that player progress is bumpless and that you can neglect the current age and the level of particular skills in a player which are sources of severe short-term errors. And it's not down to youth coaches' estimation inaccuracies, because you can rate your graduated players yourself, and the assessments will be dead spot on but you'll still see four nines, then one ten, then two elevens and then three twelves. So you're barking up the wrong trees in both cases. The player progress issue is what you should apply analysis to. I'll help with that some time in the future when I'm not as busy as today. The key is - there are fast-training players, who, having spent at least 6 weeks at the academy still have a positional skill (other than goalkeeping) at 0 and it takes more sessions of general training to upgrade that skill than other positional skills these players have. Think about it.
Mind you, are not even complaining that "my youngsters don't stay long enough under the youth team coaching where they improve just as fast as in the senior team, but at the cost of 0 advanced trainiing spaces and 1 coach and not 1 per player and 4, respectively".
Everybody likes to forget other managers have most things the same way. If your lot improves, everyone else's will too and it'll be down to tactics and luck a degree more. And would you be satisfied with a level-0 16-year-old? Hardly likely. The youth team is for that you can get a fun extra Sokker game per week, and you can get your players from anywhere. Even if these youngsters not good enough for you, you can grow and sell them and accumulate a kitty.
On the other hand, in the youth reform topic you weren't looking at the mechanics of rating and player progress which SO many players are superstitious about - but instead suggested managers should rather coax themselves into thinking they can achieve reliability if they cling to the linear model of player improvement via correlation coefficients. it's the expectation that player progress is bumpless and that you can neglect the current age and the level of particular skills in a player which are sources of severe short-term errors. And it's not down to youth coaches' estimation inaccuracies, because you can rate your graduated players yourself, and the assessments will be dead spot on but you'll still see four nines, then one ten, then two elevens and then three twelves. So you're barking up the wrong trees in both cases. The player progress issue is what you should apply analysis to. I'll help with that some time in the future when I'm not as busy as today. The key is - there are fast-training players, who, having spent at least 6 weeks at the academy still have a positional skill (other than goalkeeping) at 0 and it takes more sessions of general training to upgrade that skill than other positional skills these players have. Think about it.
Mind you, are not even complaining that "my youngsters don't stay long enough under the youth team coaching where they improve just as fast as in the senior team, but at the cost of 0 advanced trainiing spaces and 1 coach and not 1 per player and 4, respectively".
Calculation was "chance of not having at least one junior starting at 16y in 13 draws in a row", it had no other claim.
If I'd had 30 players in 5 weeks, I'd have calculated 30 draws in a row.
I 'm wondering how many other things you can misunderstood ?
Actually no, I'd rather not know.
If I'd had 30 players in 5 weeks, I'd have calculated 30 draws in a row.
I 'm wondering how many other things you can misunderstood ?
Actually no, I'd rather not know.
I find it pityful that today, you cannot guarantee anything, even with an unearthly youth coach.
I find the coming of random youth ok, it can be better, but it is ok at best.
But on the other hand, you need external programs to be sure (kind of) of the player's potential and talent.
The youth matches contribute to nothing
100% of a player's skill, including talent, remains unknown until he gets pulled to the A-squad
The only certainty you have is that, IF the player will be 20y or older when he gets out of the youth school, is that he'll be absolutely not worth the time, effort or training spot, so you can basically sack those players immediately, even if Sokker says he might have the potential to become a divine player. And that is mainly due to the fact that a player of that age can only come out with the same ceiling of skills as a 16y old or any age in between, being excellent.
I find the coming of random youth ok, it can be better, but it is ok at best.
But on the other hand, you need external programs to be sure (kind of) of the player's potential and talent.
The youth matches contribute to nothing
100% of a player's skill, including talent, remains unknown until he gets pulled to the A-squad
The only certainty you have is that, IF the player will be 20y or older when he gets out of the youth school, is that he'll be absolutely not worth the time, effort or training spot, so you can basically sack those players immediately, even if Sokker says he might have the potential to become a divine player. And that is mainly due to the fact that a player of that age can only come out with the same ceiling of skills as a 16y old or any age in between, being excellent.
The wording might be a little confusing. By "out of the youth school" you definitely mean "and into the youth academy". Because there aren't limits as to what level the trainees can attain in the academy in what age, or they're only practical and indirect (managed through the time for which they are staying at the academy).
What Sokker's estimation of player potential tells you is what he'll be like when graduating to the first team. They seem to be based on the initial rating of a player, so if that rating doesn't take a dunk or a spike soon, they turn out quite accurate in most cases. You only have to calculate what year and week that state will be available at. The more games you include a player in, the more accurate the coach's ratings of his ability. And you can see things too, you can compare the player's game ratings in particular roles when starting and when playing off the bench and then compare that to their performance as you see it. And more!
When I put the data of some of my adolescent players through these 'external programs', they are showing the ultimate talent of 3 with sugar on top. Why are these players not of international team standard? Because a player who needs 2 sessions to upgrade pace from 5 to 6 at the age of 17 loses out to a player who needs 2 sessions to upgrade pace 8 to 9 at the age of 20. Both look the same to the rating process if you neglect those additional factors. There's more. Unless you find a player who can clock a level of pace in one week at least twice in succession, you might not be sure of what your players amount to while they're young even if they're already in your first team. Except that you see who had a head start - and this, while valuable, is trumped by susceptibility to training - especially that higher skill levels need increasing amounts of output.
Terrion is aware of this already.
What Sokker's estimation of player potential tells you is what he'll be like when graduating to the first team. They seem to be based on the initial rating of a player, so if that rating doesn't take a dunk or a spike soon, they turn out quite accurate in most cases. You only have to calculate what year and week that state will be available at. The more games you include a player in, the more accurate the coach's ratings of his ability. And you can see things too, you can compare the player's game ratings in particular roles when starting and when playing off the bench and then compare that to their performance as you see it. And more!
When I put the data of some of my adolescent players through these 'external programs', they are showing the ultimate talent of 3 with sugar on top. Why are these players not of international team standard? Because a player who needs 2 sessions to upgrade pace from 5 to 6 at the age of 17 loses out to a player who needs 2 sessions to upgrade pace 8 to 9 at the age of 20. Both look the same to the rating process if you neglect those additional factors. There's more. Unless you find a player who can clock a level of pace in one week at least twice in succession, you might not be sure of what your players amount to while they're young even if they're already in your first team. Except that you see who had a head start - and this, while valuable, is trumped by susceptibility to training - especially that higher skill levels need increasing amounts of output.
Terrion is aware of this already.
You clearly misinterpreted my words.
I was not talking about players "in" the youth academy but about how they come out of the youth academy...and into the senior squad.
Their ceiling is always excellent on skills. So a 20 or 21 y old coming out of the youth academy Is worth nothing because of his limitations of his skills. The extra skillpoints are always wasted on skills like f.e. GK or Striker if it's a midfielder or just a player with very low pace level.
I've had 1n unearthly pull at end 18y with hopeless pace and unsatisfactory technique. So while he had an enormous amount of potential and a very good talent he still was ruïnes by the game. Imagine pulling that player at age 20 or 21...
But that's not all. Because I'm training him non stop on pace and now he has solid pace early 20y old. And he Will probably never make it to being a decent player for my team. The reason why I'm training him is to see how far he can get
And because I'm simply not motivated to play for prices. I Will fill my time on my team training young players out of my youth academy, trying to assemble a team solely existing of own youth.
Btw...Terrion knows that because he uses external programs to calculate talent. Programs that should ben part of Sokker in the first place but are not.
(edited)
I was not talking about players "in" the youth academy but about how they come out of the youth academy...and into the senior squad.
Their ceiling is always excellent on skills. So a 20 or 21 y old coming out of the youth academy Is worth nothing because of his limitations of his skills. The extra skillpoints are always wasted on skills like f.e. GK or Striker if it's a midfielder or just a player with very low pace level.
I've had 1n unearthly pull at end 18y with hopeless pace and unsatisfactory technique. So while he had an enormous amount of potential and a very good talent he still was ruïnes by the game. Imagine pulling that player at age 20 or 21...
But that's not all. Because I'm training him non stop on pace and now he has solid pace early 20y old. And he Will probably never make it to being a decent player for my team. The reason why I'm training him is to see how far he can get
And because I'm simply not motivated to play for prices. I Will fill my time on my team training young players out of my youth academy, trying to assemble a team solely existing of own youth.
Btw...Terrion knows that because he uses external programs to calculate talent. Programs that should ben part of Sokker in the first place but are not.
(edited)
External tools? Nah, Sokker junior potential appraisal (press room) is a masterpiece !