Subject: [IDEA] More training spots + cap on age on trainees

We know that so called farming, where managers train 10 very young players short term and buy and sell them often, till they gathered a lot of cash before they start being competitive by training a batch of best trainees they can gather or buy a first team, is very effecient, and done by a lot of managers because of it. But it comes with long stretches of non competitive state, and is not really how the game should be played in many's view.

We also know that with the new International Cup that has been created that the need for a larger squad is more imminent then ever, injuries will play a larger role then ever because of many matches within a short spand.

My idea is aimed to solve both issues at once, in a way that is simple to programme, hell, it shouldnt take much more then 15 min to programme.

Give us 12 training spots, but, only 6 of them can be 21 years old or younger. The other 6 has to be 22 years old or older.

This way we will be able to train more players to ensure people playing competitive have chance of large enough sufficient roosters, and we will do a large needed blow to farming, because even many farmers (myself inclusive) think its annoying to have stretches of non competitive state to be able to compete at high level.

Of course, so the young player market dont crash by people having to sell all at once, it should be done with 1 less trainee U21 available per season till fully implemented

I do not agree for the following reasons :
- new teams will be handicaped because training bad 22y+ players will not help then to improve
- teams that have decided from scratch using only U18 players to build a new team
- teams like mine that only train U21 players to help my country to improve

I totally agree with your intention to reduce farming (and therefore trading).

But even 6 slots will be not enough. Farming teams will reserve 6 slots to U21, others slots to U22, U23 ...
It may be less profitable, but it will still be much more profitable to farm when competitive teams will lose capital or earn little.

I have thought about how to limit farming/trading myself, but I have never found a solution.
The game is broken at its core : not being competitive allows you to become competitive.

The underlying problem is quite simple: players start low-skilled, and the linear training progression system allows them to up very high (only talented and "higher-skilled" juniors).

If you don't change the way players start their careers and progress, you won't solve the problem of farming (and trading) and you won't encourage teams to compete fairly.

So basically, what's will happen :

1) The game will remain the same, none of the developers' plans have ever questioned or reformed any core aspect of the game.

2) The game will continue to be boring for some teams until some ultimately give up.

End of story.

I like the idea, but I would not say that farming is per se the evil of the game.

Without farming, there would be a significant way less to catch up to upper league teams. Otherwise, how would you decrese the gap between the strong old teams and weaker new teams?

Tactical skill will not compensate for a delta of >10 in average team rating.

Would you prefer a game, where only established teams can compete and new teams have now chance to close the gap?

Without farming, there would be a significant way less to catch up to upper league teams.
changes like greatly decreasing ME-related gap between "unskilled", fresh player and a player in his prime would also cause that the gap between strong old teams and weak new teams wouldn't be so big as it can be now
in other words - the whole game would change the way that "gap" would not be that big and tactical skill would be able to compensate rating diff, because that diff would not be that big

such changes however, even if successfully applied, would also cause great exodus of users, because most of them needs farming to play and that farming itself is fueling them more than chasing the trophies and without it they would simply leave the game as it would become far too hard for them and possibly too boring

Absolutely!

However, reading in the forum how people complain about "random" and "handicap" of the ME nowadays, I am pretty sure that it woukd be hardly accepted by the community.

So, I don't think this is an alternative way.

And let's face it. The tactical depth is not that big as it would be needed to close any gap.

One of most interesting things in this game is training and building a team from scratch, if you take the meaning out of it (since a much worse team without time spent on it will be similar / same), I think the game loses a lot of sense.

Without farming, there would be a significant way less to catch up to upper league teams.

I wasn't saying the opposite. That's precisely the problem.

Would you prefer a game, where only established teams can compete and new teams have now chance to close the gap?

In a way, this is still the case. Older teams turn to farming when they can no longer afford to be competitive. As for the newcomers, if they want to progress, they are doomed to farming. Result : boring competition for most.

In the end, we know what happens. Some veterans stay, sticking with the game, perhaps asking for a few changes that will never impact the core of the game. And meanwhile, most will have left, boring of this infinite loop.
(edited)

Farming is only a problem when it ruins the competitive aspect of the game.
Once you remove the "Fall and build" mechanism and it becomes just build, you'll eventually end up with a meritocracy where this game actually becomes a football manager game instead of a financial simulator.
Big clubs should be big clubs because they have good managers, not because they're spreadsheet experts who waited 2 years to "Have a go".

As long as there are transfers and players being listed at young age none of that will happen

Divorce training from competition. The IC Cup may actually do this (or reduce it) but personally I'd make the Friday game the only game where you can receive training.

If there's no need to play trainees in the league, there's no need to drop down.
Now if I'm anticipating your reply it'll be "Big clubs will be big forever and horde the best players" and I say, well yeah. They should. But eventually the increased competition and the cost of constantly having the best players will drag them down and balance the playing field.
Right now, finances play too big a part in this game. The game needs to be rebalanced towards success, not money.
(edited)

You're just shifting the problem. Transfers will be made on U22s with price increases, and will only encourage coachs to farm even more, for longer.

That won't fix it, it will create a different problem where rich team will be able to compete at top level and train at top level

In other words it will create a loop where rich/strong will stay rich/strong - making most money from tickets/sponsors/prizes and training next top team / training for profit

But eventually the increased competition and the cost of constantly having the best players will drag them down and balance the playing field.

and then they will go down, make money again and come back xD it will be the same as today, only the rich will be able to stay at the top for much longer

Right now, finances play too big a part in this game. The game needs to be rebalanced towards success, not money.

you would have to re-do the whole game from top to bottom to make that happen, you can as well create a new game from scratch

btw. I played this kind of game that you would like here. It was extremely boring, everyone just trained their own youths, nobody sold anyone, there was nothing to do there. Same teams, with same players everywhere. You trained one team, then you trained next generation. It never reached over 1k users and got deleted after couple of years.