Subject: [IDEA] More training spots + cap on age on trainees

That won't fix it, it will create a different problem where rich team will be able to compete at top level and train at top level

In other words it will create a loop where rich/strong will stay rich/strong - making most money from tickets/sponsors/prizes and training next top team / training for profit

But eventually the increased competition and the cost of constantly having the best players will drag them down and balance the playing field.

and then they will go down, make money again and come back xD it will be the same as today, only the rich will be able to stay at the top for much longer

Right now, finances play too big a part in this game. The game needs to be rebalanced towards success, not money.

you would have to re-do the whole game from top to bottom to make that happen, you can as well create a new game from scratch

btw. I played this kind of game that you would like here. It was extremely boring, everyone just trained their own youths, nobody sold anyone, there was nothing to do there. Same teams, with same players everywhere. You trained one team, then you trained next generation. It never reached over 1k users and got deleted after couple of years.

"and then they will go down, make money again and come back xD it will be the same as today, only the rich will be able to stay at the top for much longer"

Well no, because there would be no benefit to dropping down if the Training Vs Competition problem no longer exists. It'd be the opposite because of income dropping.

Of course there would still be a benefit, you drop down and make money mostly because you don't have to pay top level wages + you train for profit (low price paid, high price sold).

Possibly it would be even more profitable, since more people would be able to train, then there would be a bigger market for buying top / top talented youths.

There's always going to be the problem of training youngsters versus being competitive.
The core of this game forces users to either focus on training and give in on competition or the opposite.
You can be competitive AND train youngsters for profit simultaniously, but that requires investments in top youngsters and a preliminary period of straight focus on training.

The issue is not going to be resolved with 1 or 2 extra training spots and / or age restrictions on training since training youngsters while being coupled on match minutes WILL reduce the competitive nature of your team.

Like Camus said, if we split training from match minutes, we can do both and it's the same for everyone, BUT, the problem then lies in the difference between new or poor teams versus older or rich teams AND in the destruction of accessible transfers for poorer or new teams, since all teams are going to be richer and pay more for the better players / trainees.
I think we're too focussed on changing the game too much on one side, without knowing what it will turn out to be on the other side. Besides, the devs already have very little time managing the games basics, so fundamental changes will take forever to happen. The problem with these ''little'' adjustments is that it will always affect other aspects of the game and maybe it turns out to be worse than it already was.

About the idea... I think it won't hurt the game for setting the training spot total at 11, which will always be the most logical number for a football team.
However, an age restriction for training spots is imo not a good idea because it limits your freedom as a coach to train the players you want to train.

The advantage disappears though because everyone is training for profit, while also trying to compete.

Teams A-D are training players while trying to win
Team E-H are training players and dropping down trying to save money

A-D are ultimately going to make more money (if the economy rewards success like it should) and really this is how the game should aim to operate. To me the current system, which discourages trying to win, is game breaking.

"Like Camus said, if we split training from match minutes, we can do both and it's the same for everyone, BUT, the problem then lies in the difference between new or poor teams versus older or rich teams AND in the destruction of accessible transfers for poorer or new teams, since all teams are going to be richer and pay more for the better players / trainees."

I want to reply to this but I'm pretty busy. I'm going to come back to it though, because the solution isn't complicated, it's just a matter of perspective.

The solution for one issue will bring other issues in the future, for sure.
Yes, the solution of this thing is solved easy with things said within this topic already. Preventing a snowball effect is the only thing I'd ask to take into consideration

The advantage disappears though because everyone is training for profit, while also trying to compete.

if everyone trains for profit then who buys the players and gives them the profit? :)

if everyone trains 16-18yo players for profit then who trains the 22-27yo players? :)

I don't think you really understand how the profit training and staying low works because you never did it, you just have a wrong idea on how it works. I didn't make money selling to teams that were competing for trophies, I literally made money on selling players to those who were training youngsters. The change that you propose is more teams training youngsters, so in this scenario you would give me more clients :))
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I agree. Giving small ideas and expecting them to change core of the game is pointless. If you make a small change it will in most cases not impact the game or impact it differently than expected. Like changing number of league teams caused an inflation.

If the aim is to change the game, it has to be a rework of whole game, otherwise it's pointless and potentially harmful.

Even the idea of making the training "free for all". Cool idea at first glance. If you look at it deeply from different perspectives you will find red flags. For example: the big/rich/old staying big/rich/old while the small/poor/new would be unable to catch up with them anymore due tu numerous reasons.

I think I need to reword it

"Everyone could train for profit"

and training of course isn't limited to 16-21, that's a choice.

"if everyone trains for profit then who buys the players and gives them the profit? :)"

There will always be competition for the best youths and there will always be competition for the best players.

What I'm proposing is effectively 2 teams within a squad, where 1 are the trainees and 1 are the team for the league. Now how you balance those squads out are a matter of choice, it wouldn't have to be a 10 trainees + mains makeup. I'm getting off track anyway.

"The change that you propose is more teams training youngsters, so in this scenario you would give me more clients :))"

What I'm suggesting is that teams should be able to train and compete, not have to pick between 1 or the other. I don't see any problem with giving you more clients, I see a problem with clubs staying intentionally low and benefitting from it. A club training and competing should always be better off than a club training and intentionally losing. If you balance training for everyone, competing becomes more important.

What I'm suggesting is that teams should be able to train and compete, not have to pick between 1 or the other. I don't see any problem with giving you more clients, I see a problem with clubs staying intentionally low and benefitting from it. A club training and competing should always be better off than a club training and intentionally losing. If you balance training for everyone, competing becomes more important.

Again, you don't understand how it works.

If you give me more clients, it will be even more profitable for me to stay in low division, I will make higher profit on every season.
If you allow me to train youths for profit fully just by using them on Friday, it will be even easier for me to train them. And I will be able to stay at higher level while farming because I won't have to use the youths in my league games.

You think that your idea would make farming less profitable while it would actually make it easier and more profitable. And then it would also make it more sustainable in the period after farming (because with fully grown team and 250m euro in the account I would be able to stay at top for years). Ergo it would be even better to farm in low leagues in your system than in the current one.

Another issue is, if you want only friendlies to give training, then if I have a team based on 25-26yo players that are "A-team" then they will have to play in both league games, IC and also in the friendly because otherwise they won't get the training.

I understand what you're saying, I don't think you understand what I'm saying and I know better than to keep repeating myself when talking to you.

You are right about the friendly training thing though, there are better solutions. Ultimately though any solution has to lead to the same place, training has to be independent of competition.

I fully understand what you are saying and since I have actual experience with farming and I know what happens and why it happens while farming, I can also explain why your idea would actually backfire and instead of limiting farming, it would make it even better for farmers in multiple ways.

It's the same way with proposing more rewards / more money for competing teams so that they earn more than farmers make on training.
On the surface it makes sense. The problem is that in reality it won't work and we have already seen that after extra money was added especially at the top via extra weekly league game.

The result of adding extra money at the top was that his money went down and straight into the pockets of farmers/trainers. The reason is pretty simple, top teams can already afford EVERYTHING in the game. Crazy big stadium, max coaches, max youth school, top player wages. So if you give them more money, the ONLY way they can spend it is by spending more on transfers. Unfortunately when all top teams have more money, then they will simply still compete for same players and pay more for them. If they pay more for trained players, then more money goes to those who trained. And then those who trained can also spend more on their next youths.

In short, promoting playing competitively by raising rewards/tickets/sponsors would only cause inflation and more money in the pockets of trainers/farmers.
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I think that the best way to combine both training and competition is to split U21 and A-team players from each other, give both their own purpose and training system and make sure that being competitive is the main source for profit.
That said, I think training the U21 should have the 10 advanced training spots and training speed should be increased for them.
Then, the A-squad should train each player, dependant on their minutes played, but they should train at half the speed of the U21.

And maybe even more, have the youth and U21 players trained generally faster, like 150% compared to the current advanced training system.
And then, the A-squad, have them train all, dependant on their minutes played for 75%, compared to the current advanced training system.

The advantage is that you can have far better U21 players, which will make the U21 teams more interesting to watch and which will make tactics far more important for them.
On the other hand, you can just invest your money in your A-squad and be sure that they will all train without having to put U21 players in the team.
Sure, rich teams will be better initially, but in time things will evolve into a more balanced system where everyone can enjoy their matches.

There need to be lots of things worked out, but at least this is a beginning to think about.

Another advantage is that youth players will have more chances to be trained and U21 NT teams will have more players to choose from

I suggested something similar 2 years ago, I think it COULD work if very well thought out, but it also has huge downsides. One of them is the fact that farmers would suddenly get 20 training slots. Even if you limit the senior team to only 22+ players it will still be an extra profit to train well bought 22yos. They wouldn't bring as much profit as 16-18, but there would be decent profit on 10 slots.

Another issue is the u21 team. If you can train max 10, then you would have to waste at least one u21 player without giving him any training and that's just to have 11 to play, let alone bench players. If you increase number of training slots - again, extra profit slot for farmers.

10 advanced training already fine but maybe it could be 11 for each position or 11+3 or 4 with substitutions advantages can be considered.

But ofcourse it will change game dinamics like so many coach dont focusing to league results and with corner tactics just focusing to train more 16-17 yo players to gain more money and it can be crash game balance between others. 10 already look like balanced. Maybe max 11 could be for each position like.