Subject: [IDEA] New division structure after deleted divisions

In many countries the bottom division(s) are deleted.
I think after this deleting of division something else needs to be done to get more divisions back (without the botteams) so managers can promote more often and won't stuck in a bottom league for too many seasons.

A solution is to change the structure of leagues in divisions, and this will work okay for all countries.
Instead of the current structure:
Division 1 (1)
Division 2 (4)
Division 3 (16)
Division 4 (64)
etc ...

It could be changed into
Division 1 (1)
Division 2 (2)
Division 3 (4)
Division 4 (16)
Division 5 (64) or Division 5 (32) >> 32 for smaller countries to prevent too many botleagues
etc ...
Bottom League (7 botteams + all new managers)

And of course in bottom leagues all human controlled teams should play their matches each weekend and against other human controlled teams, and at the end of a season as many as possible human controlled teams should promote/replace botteams in the next division.

This way managers have more promotions to look for, stronger teams will be more at the top and the gap between divisions/leagues will become smaller (good for new managers), also at the top because of a new smaller second division (2) and countries with just a few managers can still have 3 divisions + bottom league but with a lot less (bot)teams as they have today.
Win - win for everyone, or mostly everyone, the weakest teams in second division will be put in third division.

If many managers agree, maybe the DEVs will implement this new division structure.

Poll edited by an Charles Hill's idea
And greg told a poll could be edited about, so ... there is

before our vote, let's think about future new users and why they could keep playing longer than yet.

The solution is only going to do something for the top 50 teams of countries.... still way too wide league structure, and it is more in the bottom the problem is, then in the top....
(edited)

1-2-4-16-64 wouldnt solve the problem unless countries have less then 50 users..... it needs to be 1-2-4-8-16-32 (or even 1-2-4-8-8-8-8-8 in countries with less then 500 users)... otherwise it will still be a too big bottom, where there will be too many 40-80% bot leagues... the more narrow the structure is made, the more promotions to achieve and more even leagues there will be

IMO this would be the solution:

Countries with over 500 users

1
4
8
16
32
64
64
64


Countries with 200-500

1
4
8
16
16
16
16


Countries with less then 200 users

1
2
4
8
8
8
8




And also... if double the leagues as the one above=winners auto promote, worst half of 5-8 auto relegate, 2nd place play qualification versus better half of 5-8.... this would help leagues where there are 2-3 strong teams that all could play in higher league, but each time someone goes up, another strong goes down, so will make a hard promotion from that league...
And if four times as much leagues as the one above, half will auto promote, other half will play quali.... i know that at least our top division has only got 1 team swithced per season for the last 2 rl years....
(edited)

Really like the idea! its funny contradictory after deleted divisions, but more div with less teams give more game challenges every seasons.

I really like to this new structure but only with new solution who promote challenge !
eg. Stay at second place and not access a new div is generally better for your team value than access an higher div and compete against better team ! Really. eg (2) A "rich farmer team" in a very low div can more easily value his team (training, trading) than a team who challenge every seasons to access higher div !
In other words : Rich clubs in lower divs should not exist, "Poor teams" who reach higher div should value their team !
(edited)

Another structure could be:

Division 1 (1)
Division 2 (2)
Division 3 (4)
Division 4 (16)
Division 5 (16) or Division 5 (32) or Division 5 (64) >> Division 5 is more than enough for almost all countries, with max 64 leagues as most countries won't even need more than 64 leagues.
Division 6 (64) or Division 6 (128) or Division 6 (256) >> Division 6 is needed for max 5 countries
Division 7 (128) or Division 7 (256) or Division 7 (512), etc >> Division 7 is needed for only 1 country, Poland
Bottom Division /League (1) >> 7 botteams + all new managers

I don't think we have a problem at top divisions. The worst teams in the 1st division are comparable to the best teams in second division, and all second division leagues have comparable strength. Hence, I see no need to mess with the league structure at the top. It could be a good idea to change the structure at the bottom though. Just like new divisions used to have only half the teams until they got full. That would further help reduce the number of bots and introduce some smoothness in promotions/relegations there.


However, I see most proposals here do the opposite: they squeeze it at the top, when it's not needed, and they keep it 4x at the bottom, where it is worse. Hence, I voted No, because if any change is to be made in the league structure, it is exactly the opposite as the one proposed :P

Create leagues with 20 teams and play 38 matches every season thus making the game more realistic and diverse in terms of opponents. Simple. Starts in September, ends in May.

in italy, before deletion of the last division, the last division had the same league of the upper.
so it was:
Division 1 (1)
Division 2 (4)
Division 3 (16)
Division 4 (64)
Division 5 (64)

I think that, in nations where is possible, we can use the same structure. this will help new teams.
and if teams will growing up more quickly, we can set, at the end of the season, another group
eg:

before -> Division 4 (64) and Division 5 (64)
after -> Division 4 (64) and Division 5 (128) - instead of directly 256

and if teams will dead quickly, always at the end of the season, we can erase a group.
eg:
before -> Division 3 (16) and Division 4 (64)
after -> Division 3 (16) and Division 4 (64 - 16 = 48)

and this could be used for all the series if needed at the end of the season.

obviously the promotion/relegation will change nation by nations depending of the number of human controlled teams!
in nations with few human controlled teams promotion will be more probably (in Divisions with 48 groups instead of 64 the promotion/relegation games will be more probably)
in nations with more human controlled teams promotion will be less probably (in Divisions with 64 groups instead of 32 the promotion/relegation games will be less probably)

that's all folks.

;)
(edited)

I don't agree. At the moment the second division is a really strong division, and because of that the 'weakest' teams in second division are often way too strong for teams in third division to be able to promote (if I look at the Netherlands), and when a team accidentally promote to second division they often have no change at all to win matches and loose a lot of supporters and income. The moment the strongest teams of the current 4 leagues in second divisions will be playing together in 2 new leagues of second divisions, the 4 leagues of third divisions will be a bit less strong so then the bottom teams will be beatable for the fourth division teams, the same for the fifth division, etc.

So a new second division is absolutely not an idea just for the top teams in these top divisions, it will reduce the gap between all divisions.

And with a large bottom division (1 league as junior league) for all new managers to start in, they won't be playing in 1 of many botleagues anymore, but 1 large league with mostly human controlled teams. And this is also a new division so even more promotions for managers. And there will only be a few botteams left in this bottom league, but a few are needed to make sure all human controlled teams can play matches and also to make sure won't play against the same team each week when there are just a few (human controlled) teams in this bottom league.

EDIT: and Division 5 (and 6 and 7) can be used to make sure the number of teams fit the number of active users in each country to prevent too many botteams.

(edited)

Many divisions, small divisions, a maximum of promotion/relegation and challenge each seasons should be a great structure for every countries.

Yeah, just look at some new teams in my second division, in the relegation/promotion game Fc Soepkiekens forgot to put players on the pitch, now we have a bot in our division with a rating of max 54, I reckon...

Although, there are some real good teams in 3rd division, but that's because their league is exceptionally strong.

The idea of less league's per division is brilliant, should've happened 3 years ago!
(edited)

This is too much...I lost count...hard to read topic...and I do not get the point of it!

+1

The point is divisions are deleted and less divisions means Sokker becomes a boring game with max 1 or 2 promotions because of the lack of divisions, specially in small(er) Sokker countries. And also less divisions means that really strong and weak teams will be playing in the same division while these teams should not be in the same division, the difference in strength between these teams is absolutely no fun for both the strong and weak teams.

So more divisions will reduce this gap as equal teams will be playing in the same divisions more often. And this also means that teams in lower divisions have more chance to promote as they will face more equal teams. And more divisions, because of lower number of leagues per division also means that managers can promote more often, and be able to win your league and promote is much more fun as getting stuck in a (bottom) league for many season and have only 1 or 2 possible promotions in a couple of season (years).

With a new structure (see example below) the best 16 teams from second division will stay in division 2, the other teams will be playing in division 3, together with the best teams from division 4. Teams from division 5 will be able to defeat these weakest teams in division 4 more easily in p/d matches as today. And with a bottom league for new managers, even managers in small(er) and medium Sokker countries have 4 or 5 promotions in the future:

Division 1 (1)
Division 2 (2)
Division 3 (4)
Division 4 (16)
Division 5 (16) or Division 5 (32) or Division 5 (64)
Division 6 and 7 >> only needed for the 5 largest Sokker countries
Bottom Division /League (1) >> 7 botteams + all new managers


(edited)

I agree about the structure of this idea.
I only want to say that maybe different countries have different needs.
A big country maybe need the lower division to be bigger, while a little one need another solution.

I think there must be a model for every country. But that model should be modified by admin, in order to fill the need of every community, looking at every country conditions and ideas (and maybe doing a poll in the countries forums?)