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Subject: »[info]Dev Diary #82: Automatic release of NT-players from
I've never seen any of these other polls and don't know where they are and I play sokker!
Surely, if the devs wanted a honest poll from people who actually play the game then why aren't the polls more visible within here? And why can't we vote in here and for those votes to be pooled together with this mysterious outside poll? Given that doesn't appear to be the situation that just leads me to believe that they don't actually want our input. What other assumption can you arrive at otherwise?
Spot on mate. Everyone knows it was a sham vote, and are expressing their disappointment both within and outside the game. It's funny reading the discord chat, the Devs dont realise the mistake they made doing such a thing (including ignoring 43/58 countries with less than 40 users by not even including that changes were happening, or that a vote was taking place, within the national forums)
Surely, if the devs wanted a honest poll from people who actually play the game then why aren't the polls more visible within here? And why can't we vote in here and for those votes to be pooled together with this mysterious outside poll? Given that doesn't appear to be the situation that just leads me to believe that they don't actually want our input. What other assumption can you arrive at otherwise?
Spot on mate. Everyone knows it was a sham vote, and are expressing their disappointment both within and outside the game. It's funny reading the discord chat, the Devs dont realise the mistake they made doing such a thing (including ignoring 43/58 countries with less than 40 users by not even including that changes were happening, or that a vote was taking place, within the national forums)
Indeed Damien, did not know that... But could be changed for the new chart to have the right view at the right time.
30% users still using old interface that's is not the default one, it's a huge number ! :)
Since the UI interface is not the most time dev consuming (i mean 'classic' HTML/CSS) i dont think that's much work to update the two interfaces... but i understand the choice...
Both interfaces will be replaced with the new one, developed by experts for User Experience
it worries me a little bit, because all I know about UX experts is that they check, test and ask for user feedback, it is part of ux work. We spend weeks about discussing "calendars" and really not much UI...
Since the UI interface is not the most time dev consuming (i mean 'classic' HTML/CSS) i dont think that's much work to update the two interfaces... but i understand the choice...
Both interfaces will be replaced with the new one, developed by experts for User Experience
it worries me a little bit, because all I know about UX experts is that they check, test and ask for user feedback, it is part of ux work. We spend weeks about discussing "calendars" and really not much UI...
it worries me a little bit, because all I know about UX experts is that they check, test and ask for user feedback, it is part of ux work. We spend weeks about discussing "calendars" and really not much UI...
We will share new UX proposal too, just game mechanism is more time consuming than frontend, so it was first step acroding to project timeline.
We will share new UX proposal too, just game mechanism is more time consuming than frontend, so it was first step acroding to project timeline.
We will share new UX proposal too, just game mechanism is more time consuming than frontend, so it was first step acroding to project timeline.
Thank you, DEVs!
Thank you, DEVs!
We have countries with 100 users and with 6 users, both have 3 league levels. Now i need to be very competitive to stay in top league which means more money from sponsors, while team in 6 users country can play with u18 team, be at the last place and with rule of bot removing from top league he is again in top league. Also training of these players are all full time league matches, while i cant do that with such ypung players or i will go out. This cant be fair.
But the team with 6 users, gets less sponsorship, less gate takings, less supporters and loses ranking points playing the bots in their top division.
So in your example, all you are worried about is being in the top division, not all the financial gain you get from being there. Even if you are in the 2nd league, you will still get more sponsorship, more gate takings, more supporters and more ranking points, than the country with 6 users.
This then also affects the ability of the small nation team to ever compete in the champions cup, or to train national team players as they can't afford as strong coaches, or pay the money for good trainees that come out of their nation.
Oh and you have more competition.
If you want to complain it is unfair, then complain it is unfair for the small nation who misses out on all the finances, meaning they can't buy players on the TL that you can, and they can't grow as fast as you can
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So in your example, all you are worried about is being in the top division, not all the financial gain you get from being there. Even if you are in the 2nd league, you will still get more sponsorship, more gate takings, more supporters and more ranking points, than the country with 6 users.
This then also affects the ability of the small nation team to ever compete in the champions cup, or to train national team players as they can't afford as strong coaches, or pay the money for good trainees that come out of their nation.
Oh and you have more competition.
If you want to complain it is unfair, then complain it is unfair for the small nation who misses out on all the finances, meaning they can't buy players on the TL that you can, and they can't grow as fast as you can
(edited)
I wrote a reply which got "cut off" :-( So I've simply deleted it.
We play in equally sized countries.
Imo, you are complaining about completely the wrong countries.
You should be complaining about the advantage that bigger countries have.
The increased rounds in the cup means more cup revenue and also more and better training for players meaning more money for transfers.
Tbh, anything the game can be doing to keep users at countries with less than 10 users it should be doing as playing in such countries must be pretty dull with no competition. Then, they simply get battered in the CC as they don't have the resources to compete.
Simply have a look at the CC and see which teams from small countries survive, the last 8 teams season in season out are from the bigger countries, this season is no different.
(edited)
Imo, you are complaining about completely the wrong countries.
You should be complaining about the advantage that bigger countries have.
The increased rounds in the cup means more cup revenue and also more and better training for players meaning more money for transfers.
Tbh, anything the game can be doing to keep users at countries with less than 10 users it should be doing as playing in such countries must be pretty dull with no competition. Then, they simply get battered in the CC as they don't have the resources to compete.
Simply have a look at the CC and see which teams from small countries survive, the last 8 teams season in season out are from the bigger countries, this season is no different.
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Since you guys decided to try to make some changes before the site engine is rewritten, I have one request.
Can you try to change the CC qualifying system. When one team wins both league and the cup, that team becomes the only team from that country to qualify. It makes winning the double title very dissatisfying. You basically lose one spot for your country.
I know you guys don't want to do too much before the general update, but, I don't know, it might not be too hard. I know that the main issue is that the app might get broken even with a small change, but if it doesn't work properly on the testing server, just give us some feedback, "We tried, but now we have to move on," no need to spend too much time troubleshooting.
(edited)
Can you try to change the CC qualifying system. When one team wins both league and the cup, that team becomes the only team from that country to qualify. It makes winning the double title very dissatisfying. You basically lose one spot for your country.
I know you guys don't want to do too much before the general update, but, I don't know, it might not be too hard. I know that the main issue is that the app might get broken even with a small change, but if it doesn't work properly on the testing server, just give us some feedback, "We tried, but now we have to move on," no need to spend too much time troubleshooting.
(edited)
I know i shouldn't be complaining about small countries but i must show what i see. And if country have 6 teams, guy who end up last there will stay in top league next season. Guy who ends up last in England will be 2nd league next season, which means less money from sponsors.
And if you have league with 6 users, one that was making average mark 40 is team that can make problem to u18 team, especially if its using tactic. Now this team will dissapear and will be replaced with human that was planned to be in 2nd league and then this team will have again bot opponent but regular one, much easier to beat with u18 team.
Imo if you have strong bot that doesnt allow others to progress, then just put on sale all 500k euros player from this team on transfer list and generate some standard players to fill missing places in starting lineup. Still you have competitive bot, better then s**t bot begginers are facing today, but not to strong so it makes a problem in development of other users. Also dont delete or replace with human from lower league, that as i see can cause that you start a game as begginer, you are in Austrailian 3 league, and next day you are in top league... wtf.
As i know sponsorship is related amount of league levels. So by that users in country with most levels have better chance to develop. Thats also not fair, because 9000 total users and we say we have top 10 talented managers by default, no matter where they are. Polska have 3000 users, so by probability, 3 out 10 of those are from Polska. And you give more money to 3 of those from sponsors and that makes them super boosted + talented.
We need to make game more fair in all aspects, we had idea of international competitions and we left our focus on domestic leagues. What if we made domestic league and domestic cup in 2nd focus, and we made more focus on international competition, saying that money from sponsors will come based on international competition and domestic is less important for money, but important for history, for national teams and so on...
And if you have league with 6 users, one that was making average mark 40 is team that can make problem to u18 team, especially if its using tactic. Now this team will dissapear and will be replaced with human that was planned to be in 2nd league and then this team will have again bot opponent but regular one, much easier to beat with u18 team.
Imo if you have strong bot that doesnt allow others to progress, then just put on sale all 500k euros player from this team on transfer list and generate some standard players to fill missing places in starting lineup. Still you have competitive bot, better then s**t bot begginers are facing today, but not to strong so it makes a problem in development of other users. Also dont delete or replace with human from lower league, that as i see can cause that you start a game as begginer, you are in Austrailian 3 league, and next day you are in top league... wtf.
As i know sponsorship is related amount of league levels. So by that users in country with most levels have better chance to develop. Thats also not fair, because 9000 total users and we say we have top 10 talented managers by default, no matter where they are. Polska have 3000 users, so by probability, 3 out 10 of those are from Polska. And you give more money to 3 of those from sponsors and that makes them super boosted + talented.
We need to make game more fair in all aspects, we had idea of international competitions and we left our focus on domestic leagues. What if we made domestic league and domestic cup in 2nd focus, and we made more focus on international competition, saying that money from sponsors will come based on international competition and domestic is less important for money, but important for history, for national teams and so on...
"And if country have 6 teams, guy who end up last there will stay in top league next season. Guy who ends up last in England will be 2nd league next season, which means less money from sponsors."
Except you are incorrect with this theory.
Guy who ends up last in Poland Div 1, drops to div 2 Poland, and is on over 550k sponsorship. Team who ends up last in Small country, and gets "repromoted" due to bot clean, is on 300k. This is the real sokker example so you are wrong here.
What you say would make logical sense if everything was standardised (including gate takings, fanclub members, ranking points etc.), but it is not the case.
And even if sponsorship was more (which is isn't, all the research we have done has shown this not to be the case), the country with 6 humans, will sell out, at good prices, in only 2-4 of todays 14 matches. They will also have 4+ very small attendances against the bots.
The team that relegated to Div 2 will sell out and have more attendance on at least 10 matches, and likely all 14. The average attendance in Australia brings in about 343 750 $ but the average attendance in Poland div 2 is more like 625 000 $ so even if the Aus team got 31 250 $ more per week sponsorship (which again, evidence shows it is not the case), they would end up with 62 500 $ more per fortnight from sponsorship, but 281 250 $ less per fortnight in gate takings, so would still be down 218 750 $ per fortnight.
When you are getting less money, your team cannot improve as much or as fast, which is why very young teams in the large countries can be rating in the 50's and 60's very quickly. It all starts with the unfair distribution of money, which allows them to buy better players, which means they get more money, so they buy better again and so on and so forth.
tcd_uk, who comes from a similar sized country as yours, sees this issue, so hopefully you can too. I know what you are saying may seem logical, but it is not how it works in the sokker system, and even if it did work that way, I have already proven how other factors mitigate this supposed "advantage".
"much easier to beat with u18 team."
This shows how much advantage you have with money. No team in Australia or any small nation, can afford an U18 team that rates 40+ points.
"What if we made domestic league and domestic cup in 2nd focus, and we made more focus on international competition, saying that money from sponsors will come based on international competition and domestic is less important for money, but important for history, for national teams and so on"
This is spot on and the only 100% fair way to do it. They already want 3 matches a week, so if there was a national, international and a 3rd match of some sort, then every team could compete in International and National with their firsts, and then use trainees in the 3rd match. But the best part about it, the user gets to decide if this is how they want to run their team, they aren't forced to do this. Maybe they think their team would be better off with another combination, then they are free to do so, and that is called MANAGEMENT!. This is a MANAGEMENT game, let people manage and try to find ways to get a little (fair) edge over their competition
(edited)
Except you are incorrect with this theory.
Guy who ends up last in Poland Div 1, drops to div 2 Poland, and is on over 550k sponsorship. Team who ends up last in Small country, and gets "repromoted" due to bot clean, is on 300k. This is the real sokker example so you are wrong here.
What you say would make logical sense if everything was standardised (including gate takings, fanclub members, ranking points etc.), but it is not the case.
And even if sponsorship was more (which is isn't, all the research we have done has shown this not to be the case), the country with 6 humans, will sell out, at good prices, in only 2-4 of todays 14 matches. They will also have 4+ very small attendances against the bots.
The team that relegated to Div 2 will sell out and have more attendance on at least 10 matches, and likely all 14. The average attendance in Australia brings in about 343 750 $ but the average attendance in Poland div 2 is more like 625 000 $ so even if the Aus team got 31 250 $ more per week sponsorship (which again, evidence shows it is not the case), they would end up with 62 500 $ more per fortnight from sponsorship, but 281 250 $ less per fortnight in gate takings, so would still be down 218 750 $ per fortnight.
When you are getting less money, your team cannot improve as much or as fast, which is why very young teams in the large countries can be rating in the 50's and 60's very quickly. It all starts with the unfair distribution of money, which allows them to buy better players, which means they get more money, so they buy better again and so on and so forth.
tcd_uk, who comes from a similar sized country as yours, sees this issue, so hopefully you can too. I know what you are saying may seem logical, but it is not how it works in the sokker system, and even if it did work that way, I have already proven how other factors mitigate this supposed "advantage".
"much easier to beat with u18 team."
This shows how much advantage you have with money. No team in Australia or any small nation, can afford an U18 team that rates 40+ points.
"What if we made domestic league and domestic cup in 2nd focus, and we made more focus on international competition, saying that money from sponsors will come based on international competition and domestic is less important for money, but important for history, for national teams and so on"
This is spot on and the only 100% fair way to do it. They already want 3 matches a week, so if there was a national, international and a 3rd match of some sort, then every team could compete in International and National with their firsts, and then use trainees in the 3rd match. But the best part about it, the user gets to decide if this is how they want to run their team, they aren't forced to do this. Maybe they think their team would be better off with another combination, then they are free to do so, and that is called MANAGEMENT!. This is a MANAGEMENT game, let people manage and try to find ways to get a little (fair) edge over their competition
(edited)