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Subject: »[info]Dev Diary #82: Automatic release of NT-players from
I did bid on him. But was not winning him at the moment.
After that i did bid on him and he reappeared in the office.
But it was a bug before.
After that i did bid on him and he reappeared in the office.
But it was a bug before.
Hey Raul, any news for merging small countries? In my opinion this is something we need right away if we don't want to loose players from small countries like mine. Korea and Hong Kong are virtually with zero users!!!
Big +1
Big +1
Yes, the site is slower and yes, there are bugs, but we have to be patient and not lay too much pressure on them. If they quit now, it's the end of our beloved game...
If they don't have a site that runs properly it will be hard to get new users. That looks like saving money in the wrong place. Besides, Sokker ran reasonably well for years even when the old devs had basically abandoned it. I don't know why it got much worse recently, whether it's the new design or the new viewer or they further reduced server capacities, but it needs to be fixed. 3600 Euro per year would be the revenue from about 170 Plus subscribers. That should be doable with 10k users. If the site is that bad they'll probably lose more Plus users than that.
As I've said before, if the problem is revenue the devs should focus on the kind of changes that quickly improve the game and get new users (better starting teams and standard tactics, easier tactics editor, friendly pool, Arcade tournaments, better engine). Instead they started a huge project redesigning the whole website which is still far from finished after a year and so far only made things run worse, and I'm not sure even when it is completed it will attract new users. It's just a new package while nothing at all is improved about the product itself, which hasn't been developed in years and would need a lot of improvements. I don't think this is going into the right direction, but I hope I*m wrong.
If they don't have a site that runs properly it will be hard to get new users. That looks like saving money in the wrong place. Besides, Sokker ran reasonably well for years even when the old devs had basically abandoned it. I don't know why it got much worse recently, whether it's the new design or the new viewer or they further reduced server capacities, but it needs to be fixed. 3600 Euro per year would be the revenue from about 170 Plus subscribers. That should be doable with 10k users. If the site is that bad they'll probably lose more Plus users than that.
As I've said before, if the problem is revenue the devs should focus on the kind of changes that quickly improve the game and get new users (better starting teams and standard tactics, easier tactics editor, friendly pool, Arcade tournaments, better engine). Instead they started a huge project redesigning the whole website which is still far from finished after a year and so far only made things run worse, and I'm not sure even when it is completed it will attract new users. It's just a new package while nothing at all is improved about the product itself, which hasn't been developed in years and would need a lot of improvements. I don't think this is going into the right direction, but I hope I*m wrong.
Yeah well... It's because they are thinking in the long run. They had more then 6 months work to get the site running without flash. Flash was extremely user friendly and that's the reason why it could work really well for more then 10 years without any form of maintenance.
They do think about promoting to get new users, but they also said before it's not going to work ''while they still are working on the site on almost all aspects'' .
They want to create a stable base for the game before doing promotional work. The improvements will come quicker once their base is finished. And that base needs a new design in another UX and because of that, we are barely seeing improvements, cause the old UX is still running for the majority of the game. And because flash doesn't work anymore, all kinds of bugs are appearing which obviously delays their general UX work. I'm really confident that they will pull it of. But we need to stay patient and understanding. Trying to run while injured at the hamstrings is something you need to avoid. And promoting a runner for the olympics while he sits in a wheelchair... who's going to support that?
We see gradual changes, but lots of bugs and flaws. And that's frustrating, I get that.
You think they would have had more succes with making a new game from scratch and killing sokker in the process? They probably would in general. But how many of us, old users would've jumped on that bus, you think? They wanted to keep this community alive and they did just that! And for that, I'm gratefull.
And if that will cost me x amount of time of patience to work with a bugging game, while they improve it gradually to a greater game, then I'm happy to sit that time out.
They do think about promoting to get new users, but they also said before it's not going to work ''while they still are working on the site on almost all aspects'' .
They want to create a stable base for the game before doing promotional work. The improvements will come quicker once their base is finished. And that base needs a new design in another UX and because of that, we are barely seeing improvements, cause the old UX is still running for the majority of the game. And because flash doesn't work anymore, all kinds of bugs are appearing which obviously delays their general UX work. I'm really confident that they will pull it of. But we need to stay patient and understanding. Trying to run while injured at the hamstrings is something you need to avoid. And promoting a runner for the olympics while he sits in a wheelchair... who's going to support that?
We see gradual changes, but lots of bugs and flaws. And that's frustrating, I get that.
You think they would have had more succes with making a new game from scratch and killing sokker in the process? They probably would in general. But how many of us, old users would've jumped on that bus, you think? They wanted to keep this community alive and they did just that! And for that, I'm gratefull.
And if that will cost me x amount of time of patience to work with a bugging game, while they improve it gradually to a greater game, then I'm happy to sit that time out.
They knew about the end of flash at least 2 years before the end date, when i wrote about it in the forum, maybe they knew about it even before. They had enough time, but decided not to act.
Also the solution with JavaScript, what we have now, is not affecting the server. JavaScript runs on the client side. So i am still not sure what causes the server problems.
I am pretty sure there are plenty of users who have problems with that too if they have weaker PCs. The problem is that even the 2D is made with 3D engine, so it does not help them to switch.
Basically a series of neglect and bad decisions.
Anyway, i am not here to complain :D. I am glad that they got a team that wants to make sokker better and i am patient. I may also offer some advice when needed (or even if not) :-).
(edited)
Also the solution with JavaScript, what we have now, is not affecting the server. JavaScript runs on the client side. So i am still not sure what causes the server problems.
I am pretty sure there are plenty of users who have problems with that too if they have weaker PCs. The problem is that even the 2D is made with 3D engine, so it does not help them to switch.
Basically a series of neglect and bad decisions.
Anyway, i am not here to complain :D. I am glad that they got a team that wants to make sokker better and i am patient. I may also offer some advice when needed (or even if not) :-).
(edited)
They knew about the end of flash at least 2 years before the end date
They...
Owner: Raul - online
Joined: 2019-11-03
They...
Owner: Raul - online
Joined: 2019-11-03
It's always difficult to work on existing code sometimes its easier to start from scratch. Also PHP is relatively slow especially old versions used before 10 y so it's understandable that it takes more time than expected. I really prefer even if changes to come with one season delay but to build stable foundation .... Most likely the slowest parts on the site are where direct connection to db is inavetable . Sessions transfer market search forum etc . But I'm supprized some times how slow are pages that usally change very rare and could be served from cdn cache for example or some other caching solutions redis .
Also those unannounced deployment are bad for users if I know new code will be delivered on Saturday will not sell players at that time. Lots of users complained about server problem and bad sells because of that .
You can easily loose dedicated users if you neglect this an then it's hard to believe if any of 10 new users will stay and pay plus for so long ...
Also those unannounced deployment are bad for users if I know new code will be delivered on Saturday will not sell players at that time. Lots of users complained about server problem and bad sells because of that .
You can easily loose dedicated users if you neglect this an then it's hard to believe if any of 10 new users will stay and pay plus for so long ...
True. An excellent point. Also, the other issues are true in a certain way.
I think, their biggest concern is to constantly wage all things against each other for which problem or renovation needs the higher priority. There's a problem... they try to deal with it. Meanwhile 1 other man is working on the development of the new pages. But then, some urgent, unplanned problems come in and they need to shift their priorities. And then again...new problem, and again and again...
And meanwhile, the forum is bursting with issues, propositions...
Must be really frustrating if you ask me...
I think, their biggest concern is to constantly wage all things against each other for which problem or renovation needs the higher priority. There's a problem... they try to deal with it. Meanwhile 1 other man is working on the development of the new pages. But then, some urgent, unplanned problems come in and they need to shift their priorities. And then again...new problem, and again and again...
And meanwhile, the forum is bursting with issues, propositions...
Must be really frustrating if you ask me...
Well you have a product and it's not free so we as clients have right to request proper service ..
Cherrypicking. Raul is not the only one. It actually proves my point that they neglected the issue.
Yeah well... It's because they are thinking in the long run.
I can understand that it was easier to implement the new design before working on other changes. But that has been done 7 months ago. What they do now is redesigning every page of the webiste and making it more complex. That's a whole fifferent thing. It's not necessary, they could keep the site simple for now and work on other more important issues.
Besides, I think they're getting a little too carried away with the redesign. With those new pages the site is becoming rather complicated (and the navigation isn't very logical either), so this will be confusing for new users. That doesn't fit with their goal to make Sokker easier for new users.
You think they would have had more succes with making a new game from scratch and killing sokker in the process?
Rather the opposite, I think some of their planned changes like the new league system are too radical. And the redesign with all the new pages is quite a radical change too. All the things I've been proposing would be rather small improvements to the existing game. How are better starting teams and standard tactics, easier tactics editor, friendly pool, Arcade tournaments or a better engine "making a new game from scratch"? Most of those things wouldn't take a lot of time to implement and wouldn't scare away existing users, but would significantly improve the game experience.
And if that will cost me x amount of time of patience to work with a bugging game, while they improve it gradually to a greater game, then I'm happy to sit that time out.
I wouldn't mind some bugs if I had the impression they're really improving the game. I just don't see much value in the things they're doing now. The general site layout was okay and very useable, no need to spend months on completelly tearing it down and building a whole new and more complicated site.
At the very least I'd expect that the site is running decently and not crashing all the time. So far the devs haven't even acknowledged the problems, let alone apologized for them. This is not very professional.
I can understand that it was easier to implement the new design before working on other changes. But that has been done 7 months ago. What they do now is redesigning every page of the webiste and making it more complex. That's a whole fifferent thing. It's not necessary, they could keep the site simple for now and work on other more important issues.
Besides, I think they're getting a little too carried away with the redesign. With those new pages the site is becoming rather complicated (and the navigation isn't very logical either), so this will be confusing for new users. That doesn't fit with their goal to make Sokker easier for new users.
You think they would have had more succes with making a new game from scratch and killing sokker in the process?
Rather the opposite, I think some of their planned changes like the new league system are too radical. And the redesign with all the new pages is quite a radical change too. All the things I've been proposing would be rather small improvements to the existing game. How are better starting teams and standard tactics, easier tactics editor, friendly pool, Arcade tournaments or a better engine "making a new game from scratch"? Most of those things wouldn't take a lot of time to implement and wouldn't scare away existing users, but would significantly improve the game experience.
And if that will cost me x amount of time of patience to work with a bugging game, while they improve it gradually to a greater game, then I'm happy to sit that time out.
I wouldn't mind some bugs if I had the impression they're really improving the game. I just don't see much value in the things they're doing now. The general site layout was okay and very useable, no need to spend months on completelly tearing it down and building a whole new and more complicated site.
At the very least I'd expect that the site is running decently and not crashing all the time. So far the devs haven't even acknowledged the problems, let alone apologized for them. This is not very professional.
At the very least I'd expect that the site is running decently and not crashing all the time. So far the devs haven't even acknowledged the problems, let alone apologized for them. This is not very professional.
I don't think they were expecting this amount of problems either...
But they were very clear in the beginning it was too time consuming working on 2 lay-outs at the same time.
That's why they take this new lay-out so serious.
I get that most of us, older users, were ''content'' with the old lay-out, but new users were not...
That's why it's a necessity to adjust the lay-out.
About what you said with ''the impression they are improving the game''
It's just that! 7 months ago they only finished with the overlap from Flash to Html5.
And of course, there were lots of bugs to fix, up until now, really. But with the planned lay-out changes, there were lots of new bugs as well, so that's a set back. Raul often said to report every bug in the bugs topic, because it's the easiest and fastest way for them to locate the bugs. If they need to read all posts in all topics, it will cost them days to locate them all.
And yet, almost every day there are new or reappearing bugs, posted on numerous topics.
We've been neglected for 10 years, but we were happy we could play our beloved game every day. Now, they're working on it and it gives problems.
It's like road work. When the road is really bad and you're complaining about why no one is fixing it, you still can drive over it.
But when they're fixing it, they block the passage and make you take a detour. Then you're complaining it takes too long to fix it, cause you cannot drive that road anymore.
Think about how happy you'll be when the road is finished! It's the same with the site! Just have patience. It'll be rewarded!
I don't think they were expecting this amount of problems either...
But they were very clear in the beginning it was too time consuming working on 2 lay-outs at the same time.
That's why they take this new lay-out so serious.
I get that most of us, older users, were ''content'' with the old lay-out, but new users were not...
That's why it's a necessity to adjust the lay-out.
About what you said with ''the impression they are improving the game''
It's just that! 7 months ago they only finished with the overlap from Flash to Html5.
And of course, there were lots of bugs to fix, up until now, really. But with the planned lay-out changes, there were lots of new bugs as well, so that's a set back. Raul often said to report every bug in the bugs topic, because it's the easiest and fastest way for them to locate the bugs. If they need to read all posts in all topics, it will cost them days to locate them all.
And yet, almost every day there are new or reappearing bugs, posted on numerous topics.
We've been neglected for 10 years, but we were happy we could play our beloved game every day. Now, they're working on it and it gives problems.
It's like road work. When the road is really bad and you're complaining about why no one is fixing it, you still can drive over it.
But when they're fixing it, they block the passage and make you take a detour. Then you're complaining it takes too long to fix it, cause you cannot drive that road anymore.
Think about how happy you'll be when the road is finished! It's the same with the site! Just have patience. It'll be rewarded!
About training reports:
1. Why can I only see the training effectiveness of 4 skills?
2. The effectiveness of the assistants is a media. Why? The more assistants you have, the more effectiveness you should get, shouldn't you?
1. Why can I only see the training effectiveness of 4 skills?
2. The effectiveness of the assistants is a media. Why? The more assistants you have, the more effectiveness you should get, shouldn't you?