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Subject: »[info]Dev Diary #82: Automatic release of NT-players from

2022-04-14 09:33:34
ah another one.... I don't count anymore how many times I read the word "bug" on this forum.
2022-04-14 11:22:49
The game become unplayed.
I got injured players 25 days in my team,and i see more as a NT coach.
The other problem is forms,when we train a player to see him with good skills,
and after years (not season) we succed,that player become usseless coz of his form!

I have write about again before changes,was obvious!

We are the first we save the game,when they stop update it.
7 years we stay and play the game we love.
Why we must punish like this,i dont understand!!
The way to work to make a better game is clear and obvious,just do it.
If you dont want,just leave the game as it was,at least dont make it worse!
2022-04-15 08:30:24
Englands users in the forum agree 10% less injury time and 20% less chance of injuries not near enough, 33.3% min. reduction anything else not good enough, and I feel people will leave if they leave it as it is

I've played this game for nearly 15 years and this injury problem is the worst thing I have come across

I am sure the devs are aware, who talks with them? has anyone told them this is much more of an issue than they thought it was?

What i have found myself doing is wanting to sell all NT players from smaller to big teams and only buy from biggest of all NT sides that won't play my players as to not injury my players, probably soon enough you'll get everyone doing that if it's left like it is
making top players from bigger countries cost more and NT players from smaller countires less, again this helps bigger sides somthing you should not be doing
In 15 years I have never i repeat never felt the need to do this as injuries wern't a problem!!!

Injuries to Tomori, Moore, my keeper just as season was starting, all on NT duty force me to not want to give skills nor buy the players or even train my own players so why play the game?
I am aware that the devs are going to fix the NT injury crisis but atm they are only going to do the 10% and 20% thing again i feel, 10-20% is not enough, please don't ruin another season!

Forestman who's an old user who came back said this:
".I’ve SACKED about 10 due to injuries of 20+ days that cost more in wages than the players’ worth"
(edited)
2022-04-15 11:30:20
I don't understand, do you want 33.3% recuction to both of these parameters, or in total injury time? If you cut them both separately by 33.3% that means cut of total injury time by 55.5%, which is crazy high.

With ~10% lenght cut and ~20% injury rate cut the injuries are overall a bit worse than in the last season. What I mean by "overall a bit worse" - young players who don't play more matches weekly are better now, less chance for injury for them thanks to the cuts, and older, main team players are worse because they need to play two league games a week instead of one.
In your topic in "Bugs / Ideas" forum I posted what I think should be done to injuries to make them balanced better, a bit bigger cuts + make older players heal from injuries at normal rate, not slower as it is now. But I also think it's not as bad now as you try to paint it.

I agree about NTs - I think they should be played on arcade rules, no injuries, no additional training, I think it would make the community overall more happy.

".I’ve SACKED about 10 due to injuries of 20+ days that cost more in wages than the players’ worth"
To get total of ten 20+ days injuries in the old injury rules you would need on average 230 matches played, that's about 7 old seasons of playing, quite unlucky for him to get so many in 4 seasons, and all on players worth less than their 3 wages. Also i don't really understand his problem, if an player worth almost nothing gets injury then you just sack him and buy new one? Is that a problem?

In new injury rules to get ten 20+ days injuries you need to play on average 408 matches, which is over 10 seasons.

The problem with asking users what they want is that they don't understand how it will affect the balance of the game.

Ask if they want 50% cut to injuries lenght and rate, they will say yes, but it will make the average injury time being about 6.4 days and injuries happening to the team on average once in every 9 games, most of them being slight injuries that don't even require a substitution.

Ask if they want juniors with only perfectly distributed skills, they will say yes, but it will cause a big influx of great juniors and over time making their value much lower, youth schools should only produce 1-2 juniors/season good enough to be trained to eventually replace the players who get old.

Ask if they want a cut in stadium income, they will say no, but with the changes from this season (1 home match / week on average instead of 1 home match every 2 weeks) it will cause a big inflation if nothing is done, with extra hundreds of millions every week entering the economy. Who doesn't want more money for free? Only those who understand inflation.
2022-04-15 12:49:47
The injuries to forestman happened this season, so I don't know what you are talking about

The 10-20% less injuries when we play 1 cup or friendly a week and 2 league games, that is 33.3% more games , so 33.3% less is the adjustment for how it was before the extra game came about

No more dicussion about it needed just 1000 +1's

;0
(edited)
2022-04-15 13:16:29
The injuries to forestman happened this season, so I don't know what you are talking about

What? He got 3 injuries this season, he didn't sack any of these players. How is that relevant to what he said:

".I’ve SACKED about 10 due to injuries of 20+ days that cost more in wages than the players’ worth"

---

The 10-20% less injuries when we play 1 cup or friendly a week and 2 league games, that is 33.3% more games , so 33.3% less is the adjustment for how it was before the extra game came about

It's not 10-20% less. It's ~10% cut in injury lenght and ~20% cut in injury rate, together both of these cuts mean 1 - (1 - 0.1)(1 - 0.2) = 28% less total injury time per played match. It's not that far of the 33.3% you want.

You are right that no more discussion is needed, you don't try to understand what I say, so further discussion here is pointless :)
2022-04-15 15:16:18
At the same time we can also talk about the absurdity of training system depending on the games played. Subs are an additional cost and a loss of value because by definition they are not meant to be titular and receive full training.

If we were able to train 22 players to the same level, I think many coaches would make that choice to deal with injuries, form, and strategy adjustment… (I’m a big fan to reduce full training but increase gt for 22 players who play a match or not).

In my opinion there are many complaints about injuries for the only reason that the slightest injury makes a team lose level and value.
2022-04-15 15:58:31
Mikos how long you play sokker did you played before with other team?
If you ever have a game with 3 injuries and then that repeats few times in a row you understand that random do not consider what happened in last game and nothing can prevent that to happen again next week. I think should think about this aspect ....
We can't control opponent pitch once player is injuries he becomes more vulnerable for injuries I'm not sure if anyone noticed but some players just break very often it could be form could be they play more but is a fact :(

I know you did study on injuries but did you made a study how bigger is percentage of users playing safe tactics . That would be nice fact to have when we state the injury rate..
2022-04-15 17:20:37
It's not just simple random.

Once again:
- More matches played = injury more possible
- More driblings with the ball = injury more possible

So, there are 2 different things one can do:
- Rotation
- Tactic with less or without dribbling

Since I read of it and I understood it, injuries on my team are less frequent and I do not understand, why other people can't realize this simple fact and prefer to use the same dribble-tactics.
2022-04-15 17:25:32
- Worst grass conditions = injury more possible

:)

By the way, the high maintenance of the grass seems really useless. I had a week without matches at home (from Thursday to Thursday) and I wasn't able to recover a 47% damaged grass :/
2022-04-15 17:26:07
cause we want to play competitively and not make tactics to prevent injuries what you saying is let everybody play safe :)
i still doubt the fact that injuries are based on tactics and i always will state that even is this i had seasons with no injuries and seasons with injuries almost every game and my tactics are same ... so even if you are right about this then random has a bigger factor in all ....
i do a rotation on my mids cause i train mids but so far I have injuries mostly there...
(edited)
2022-04-15 17:37:12
Mikos how long you play sokker did you played before with other team?
I think about 4 years, ~2007-2011 :)

I know that randomness is randomness, if there is an average of let's say 7 injuries / season per team there will be teams with 2 injuries in a season, and there will be teams with 12 injuries in the same season. Also I know that higher league means higher chances for injury as there is higher game intensity = more rolls for injuries during the match generation.

Pitch quality matters, but not that much, let's say if you would get injury on average every 6 matches playing on pitch with good (80-100%) quality then you would get injury on average every 5 matches playing on pitch with bad (30-50%) quality.

I don't think players have hidden "injury vulnerability", previous injuries shouldn't matter. Important thing to say here is that players playing on attack are more often injured, I assume that's because they get more "rolls" for injuries during the match, especially rolls with higher chance of getting injury, like when they are fouled or they dribble the ball. Someone playing with ATT order has 3 times as much chance of injury as someone playing with DEF order (and MID and GK are in the middle of the "injury chances").

I don't think corner tactics affect my injury rate statistics, for that I compared injuries only from league matches in Polish 5th division, played on various pitch qualities, from this and previous season. There aren't many corner tactic users there.

I collected some fresh data, currently out of 8851 non-bot teams in my database there are:
3905 teams with 0 injuries
3089 teams with 1 injuries
1369 teams with 2 injuries
384 teams with 3 injuries
79 teams with 4 injuries
22 teams with 5 injuries
3 teams with 6 injuries

Average of 0.838 injury per team.

Counting only serious (not slight) injuries:
6038 teams with 0 serious injuries
2268 teams with 1 serious injuries
471 teams with 2 serious injuries
63 teams with 3 serious injuries
11 teams with 4 serious injuries

Average of 0.389 serious injury per team.

I think it doesn't look that bad. Yes, some teams are unlucky, but it's only small part of all teams. 79% of teams don't have more than 1 injury, 93.8% of teams don't have more than 1 serious injury.
2022-04-15 17:39:44
It's part of the competition my friend, to make tactics with less dribbling and more passing game. Even in real football if you play this prehistoric kind of tactics, you will loose.
Only beginners put allways a player on the ball and people who comply about injuries. ;P
2022-04-15 17:50:09
I do not think you even bother to see tactics of people that complain so your latest message was useless :)

@Mikoos
Imagine you are part of those +4 injuries teams. Even + 2 is bad especially if you do not train strikers and they are on your strikers ...
I pleead for more balance distribution on this stat and reduce the randomness as much as possible

@tsolias iv seen players that get injury from nowhere no dribble no tackle ...
(edited)
(edited)
2022-04-15 17:53:28
i will create a separate topic for injuries to stop the spam and complains here :)
2022-04-15 18:10:04
"I do not think you even bother to see tactics of people that complain"

Hey, you speak to an U21 coach and U21 coaches observe tactics more than any other users! ;P So, yes, I did. Some people asked me and I told them exactly where the problem is, by watching their matches. Some of them sent me their tactics, I modified their tactics and guess what happened! The frequency of injuries droped.

However, I must admit, that there were just 4 managers who asked me (and 2 sent me tactics). Perhaps I do not explain with the right words, that one can do things, so that the frequency of injuries get lower.