Subject: »[info]Dev Diary #82: Automatic release of NT-players from

but if change pace training it is really strange...

Erik Poničan, vek: 21, výška: 179 cm
hodnota: 643 750 €, plat: 4 975 €
klub: Raptor, krajina: Slovensko
forma [18] superbožský, taktická disciplína [12] vynikajúci

kondícia [10] excelentný, brankár [5] priemerný
rýchlosť [14] brilantný, obranca [11] impozantný
technika [10] excelentný, tvorca hry [8] solídny
prihrávanie [9] veľmi dobrý, útočník [7] dobrý

pace 4w to 12/ 5w to 13/ 5w to 14/ and right now have +7and no pop....
he needed 2w to 8 and 9 tech, 19gt +1 def to pop 11def.


this play 90 minutes in B team and 45 minutes in A team...

Chociemir Napieralski, vek: 19, výška: 156 cm
hodnota: 371 500 €, plat: 2 700 €
klub: Raptor, krajina: Polska
forma [17] božský, taktická disciplína [10] excelentný

kondícia [3] úbohý, brankár [1] zúfalý
rýchlosť [12](+1) vynikajúci, obranca [11] impozantný
technika [10] excelentný, tvorca hry [2] neuspokojivý
prihrávanie [3] úbohý, útočník [11] impozantný

need 3w to 9/10/11 pace and today had pop after 5 week to 12 pace... if will pace so slow, it is crazy....
(edited)

From latest pressroom article:

FORMATION TRAINING:
In order to ensure the development of players who did not catch the advanced training, formation training is available, which is much less effective, but still allows some progress to be made and, very importantly for older players, prevents a decline of skills.

No problem, that's why I kept asking,,,the graphs are messed up and the intensity % in formation training are very misleading, many people don't understand how this new training actually works

but if change pace training it is really strange...

Erik Poničan, vek: 21, výška: 179 cm
hodnota: 643 750 €, plat: 4 975 €
klub: Raptor, krajina: Slovensko
forma [18] superbožský, taktická disciplína [12] vynikajúci

kondícia [10] excelentný, brankár [5] priemerný
rýchlosť [14] brilantný, obranca [11] impozantný
technika [10] excelentný, tvorca hry [8] solídny
prihrávanie [9] veľmi dobrý, útočník [7] dobrý

pace 4w to 12/ 5w to 13/ 5w to 14/ and right now have +7and no pop....
he needed 2w to 8 and 9 tech, 19gt +1 def to pop 11def.


this play 90 minutes in B team and 45 minutes in A team...

Chociemir Napieralski, vek: 19, výška: 156 cm
hodnota: 371 500 €, plat: 2 700 €
klub: Raptor, krajina: Polska
forma [17] božský, taktická disciplína [10] excelentný

kondícia [3] úbohý, brankár [1] zúfalý
rýchlosť [12](+1) vynikajúci, obranca [11] impozantný
technika [10] excelentný, tvorca hry [2] neuspokojivý
prihrávanie [3] úbohý, útočník [11] impozantný

need 3w to 9/10/11 pace and today had pop after 5 week to 12 pace... if will pace so slow, it is crazy....

yeah, I looked at your squad....you're doing the same thing Bryan Robson dose, you THINK you train players in formation training, but you don't...

you can train ONLY 10 PLAYERS in advanced training...the rest gets basically nothing from formation training, like 1/5 of normal (advanced) training...

you have just contradicted yourself?? And also everyone seems to believe they are clever telling all what THEY know.. but no-one seems to have any proof to show..

I don't know how to make it even more simple...

ADVANCED training = OLD training, normal one

FORMATION training = 1/5 of old training, barely anything

you don't need proof, it was explained when it was introduced, it was confirmed by game owners...

if you want proof you can keep 'training' in formation and look at results, have fun

it is mis leading indeed , thanks for persisting with me, don't mind nothis we will get though to him!

Dude, training of all skills is messed up...

I have two players with similar talent and skills, both 25 yo. One popped in 'striker' to unearthly [16] in 64 general trainings (something between 6~7 specific trainings) before training reform, the other one has 4S + 38G trainings and he's still 15 in 'striker'. One 25 yo MID popped in technique with 8E+10G to unearthly [16] hahahahaha. The worst one is this DEF I have, 7 trainings to outstanding[12] in technique :p.

Other cases: 23 yo - 5S+14G to incredible[13] in 'striker'; 23 yo - 3S+31G and still no pop in pace... to brilliant[14]

We need to get used to this slowed training.

you keep changing what you are desperately trying to explain.......

one minute its ADVANCED is the ONLY training.... next formation is better than GT , then its not..........

Next its 1/5th of the old training then its nothing , then its what we were told from the start?? No mention of Coach Skills..... Player Talent... bmi and discipline.

i am having fun.. thank you :P

If all other things are equal - talent, age, skill level, minutes played, coach - formation training is around 1/5 of advanced training. BMI and discipline doesnt play a part in training at all.

Seriously I have no interest in trying to convince you, it's not my players missing training, so suit yourself, have fun

Well I'd have to see your training setup, your coach, players' talents, how many weeks they needed for previous pop etc. without this info it's impossible to say anything

All I can say are my pops and they look close to normal...

18yo popped to formidable [11] after 1 training and 12G

25yo popped to magical [15] technique after 8 trainings + 16G, which does seem a bit longer...questions is how much he got left 'after' popping to brilliant (I think 0 cause it was an untrained pop I believe) and how much 'extra' he has now after the training that popped him over 15.0

btw. I also think that there is some element of random in general training, as it is in players dropping skills

18yo popped to formidable [11] after 1 training and 12G

Was it 1+3G after the reform or 4G?

25yo popped to magical [15] technique after 8 trainings + 16G

Same question here. At most it was only ~42% of his training on [14] level done after the training reform, so it's hard to draw conclusions from that about how much the training is worse. We need full pops done after the reform on a high levels (for players with confirmed top talent) to see how much training was really changed.

btw. I also think that there is some element of random in general training, as it is in players dropping skills

I don't think there is a random element in general training, pops from general training always seemed to be consistent to me. If there is a randomness then it has to be rather small, otherwise there would be cases of abnormally quick or slow pops from just general training.

Was it 1+3G after the reform or 4G?

4G

I see your point then, he received the previous training

Same question here. At most it was only ~42% of his training on [14] level done after the training reform, so it's hard to draw conclusions from that about how much the training is worse. We need full pops done after the reform on a high levels (for players with confirmed top talent) to see how much training was really changed.

4 (all) full trainings in new training

actually not sure it's how much he got now I think of it, since he was injured for 1 training and I think got a different training in the 'screwed up first week of new training'

I agree that we'd have to wait for full pops to still full extent

I don't think there is a random element in general training, pops from general training always seemed to be consistent to me. If there is a randomness then it has to be rather small, otherwise there would be cases of abnormally quick or slow pops from just general training.

what gives me the idea of a bit random general training is the fact that there are situation where a players gets stamina increase, but next week it decreases

here can see 2 players with top talent and one talent 4,3 in my youth.... and pace trainink. Yes only few trainink information and need more, but look it that new trainink pace maybe other skills will be too slower..... 3x worst trainink for 19,20 and 21 y player is not random..

But dev wrote that can train only 10 players in pace, will pace trainink same like other skill, but not.

https://prnt.sc/BgUcxso0yagt

my youth and talent 3,38....
https://prnt.sc/WLJibJ4Kep_4

https://prnt.sc/Y0-nufysVICz
(edited)

https://prnt.sc/8YgaC3JmOBkt

borkos i did not do nithing wrong. This system is easy, only i must take care orders for players.

those 3 player are in mid training, mid=pace, play with mid order 90m in B and 45 m in A... so 97% effe....

i mean that :

1: training pace is slower
2: or is something wrong in count minutes
(edited)

But dev wrote that can train only 10 players in pace, will pace trainink same like other skill, but not.

Devs didn't write that speed of pace training will be like other skills after the reform. I think you misunderstood something. Unless I don't understand you and you mean something else :P


Let's analyze Napieralski:
1. There is a bug with Sokker Asistente, after updating it changes previous training value to higher one, as you can see SA says he had 99 in previous 3 trainings, it should be 97, like in your last training.
2. If you add 75+97+97+97 = 366, this number is lower than expected 374 training points needed for level [12]. His training to [11] shows 289/342, which means that most likely he didn't get many points over [11] in his last training to that level.
3. Sokker Asistente overvalues current training. We already know that current "96% efficiency" from one official match is worse than "90% training" from before the reform, there were cases confirming it on the 1st week of the training reform (when in the morning you could see training results from old training, and for some players old training gave pop in skill and then new training didn't). Value of current training should be scaled down in Sokker Asistente, so in reality your player at best got maybe 75+88+88+88 = 339 points in the first four trainings on [11] level which is much lower than 374 points required for next level.

It's not a question of "is it slower?", more like "how much slower it is?". And it's not only about pace, I think every skill progress was hit the same with the reform.

Król case looks a bit worse, but there are things that can explain it:
- his "max" talent 3,23 is calculated from his passing training. There is a lot of friendly only trainings there, and friendly was undervalued by Sokker Asistente before the reform. Raul said it was 80% for friendly and 91% for official match. Change friendly values manually to 80 and look how his "max possible talent" will go up
- same thing as with Napieralski in the last few weeks - 97 points from last pace training is not realistic, and his previous 3 general trainings probably gave him 10 points each when they should give 9 points

Ponican data looks very weird
- his talent calculations are impossible, so his data must be wrong somewhere, did you update every week?
- weird that he got to incredible with 541 points, and then he only needed 458 points to brilliant. His data looks too unreliable to me to draw any conclusions.

Anyway: Sokker Asistente is a great tool, but it's not an oracle, it only estimates training gains. Sometimes it's better, sometimes worse.
And we really need more weeks of trainings to see the whole picture about the new training :)