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Subject: »[info]Dev Diary #82: Automatic release of NT-players from
Possible, but unsustainable in long term (well, at least 80+, ~72-75 sure is possible).
well it's same for Poland, since you have to compete vs 75+ teams every week it's basically a non stop Champions Cup, so you have to use all resources for a couple of seasons to get trophies
admittedly more form sponsors + stadium, but at the same time more demanding in cup/league so you have to invest more
these are 75+ teams from this week only:
79.7 FC Chełmek Ekstraklasa Relacja
78.5 Japanese Futbol Ekstraklasa Relacja
78.0 WislaKrakow Liga II.02 Relacja
77.7 Furya Liga II.03 Relacja
77.5 KS Polonia Skierniewice Ekstraklasa Relacja
77.1 Paginator Armada Ekstraklasa Relacja
77.1 KS Wisła Puławy Ekstraklasa Relacja
76.7 Kajoza Ekstraklasa Relacja
76.2 MOSP Białystok Ekstraklasa Relacja
76.0 FC Batalion Lublin Liga II.03 Relacja
75.8 Domik Tuchola Ekstraklasa Relacja
75.3 LKS Stara Wieś Liga II.02 Relacja
75.2 WHITE TIGERS CF Liga II.02
And also it gets boring real quick to stomp every league game so I guess I'll go back to farming/training youths after next CC (or quit entirely, who knows) if there is no talk about possible merging small nations.
for sure, I think nobody denies that it must be boring...
the best solution is to improve the number of users in smaller leagues, if they are unable to do that they should merge the smallest countries, possibly by region
---
all that we're saying is that it's not so easy and nice in Poland as well
first of all the level of competition and resources needed to at least have a chance to get to Ekstraklasa, never mind actually winning anything
Im getting 175 000 euro from sponsors or less this season, I'm losing supporters
I need to make a team playing for average around 60 to promote to IVth league
then in IVth league there are already teams playing for 72-74... not many of course but you can get them in your league
some IV tier leagues have teams playing for average 63+, with 4-5 teams playing for 64-70
well it's same for Poland, since you have to compete vs 75+ teams every week it's basically a non stop Champions Cup, so you have to use all resources for a couple of seasons to get trophies
admittedly more form sponsors + stadium, but at the same time more demanding in cup/league so you have to invest more
these are 75+ teams from this week only:
79.7 FC Chełmek Ekstraklasa Relacja
78.5 Japanese Futbol Ekstraklasa Relacja
78.0 WislaKrakow Liga II.02 Relacja
77.7 Furya Liga II.03 Relacja
77.5 KS Polonia Skierniewice Ekstraklasa Relacja
77.1 Paginator Armada Ekstraklasa Relacja
77.1 KS Wisła Puławy Ekstraklasa Relacja
76.7 Kajoza Ekstraklasa Relacja
76.2 MOSP Białystok Ekstraklasa Relacja
76.0 FC Batalion Lublin Liga II.03 Relacja
75.8 Domik Tuchola Ekstraklasa Relacja
75.3 LKS Stara Wieś Liga II.02 Relacja
75.2 WHITE TIGERS CF Liga II.02
And also it gets boring real quick to stomp every league game so I guess I'll go back to farming/training youths after next CC (or quit entirely, who knows) if there is no talk about possible merging small nations.
for sure, I think nobody denies that it must be boring...
the best solution is to improve the number of users in smaller leagues, if they are unable to do that they should merge the smallest countries, possibly by region
---
all that we're saying is that it's not so easy and nice in Poland as well
first of all the level of competition and resources needed to at least have a chance to get to Ekstraklasa, never mind actually winning anything
Im getting 175 000 euro from sponsors or less this season, I'm losing supporters
I need to make a team playing for average around 60 to promote to IVth league
then in IVth league there are already teams playing for 72-74... not many of course but you can get them in your league
some IV tier leagues have teams playing for average 63+, with 4-5 teams playing for 64-70
well it's same for Poland
Different reason - in general it is unsustainable because players age out and you cant keep replacing/upgrading in time because player "careers" are short lived.
In my case it was (and probably will be again after financial changes) because you need spare money just for the wages so at some level money earned from trainees goes there instead of upgrades to prolong the teams peak.
Ofc there is advantage of not having to climb back 5 levels after farming trainees, but I would change my league to a Polish competition wise in a heartbeat even if I had to start from very bottom.
(edited)
Different reason - in general it is unsustainable because players age out and you cant keep replacing/upgrading in time because player "careers" are short lived.
In my case it was (and probably will be again after financial changes) because you need spare money just for the wages so at some level money earned from trainees goes there instead of upgrades to prolong the teams peak.
Ofc there is advantage of not having to climb back 5 levels after farming trainees, but I would change my league to a Polish competition wise in a heartbeat even if I had to start from very bottom.
(edited)
Your response Borkos is showing that despite how long you have been in the game, you don't understand the basic mechanics of how money is generated in the game.
Because all calculations for sponsorship are based on Fanclub, then than is what comes first and having a massive userbase of people who have had teams for a long time (whether active or not) is what creates stability.
Once you have high fanclub average, you have a higher sponsorship and then you can buy players.
You keep saying "well the league is only this strong", yes, because we have hit a ceiling, so you can't get better and even if you could, there is no point to it, why spend more on wages than what you need to win the league?
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Directed at Mikoos
Also by talking about cometer like he doesn't know what he is doing, you are proving my point that Polska Sokker is a different game to Australia/Small Nation sokker.
In Poland all you have to do is get the strongest team possible, even if it means buying lots of 35yos, and the money will follow. In Australia, that isn't how it works at all. If you are in Div II and stuck behind someone, pushing hard and failing will see you further behind because you are on such low sponsorship.
Please keep trying to argue this, because all you are doing is proving the point that Poland has a very different experience in Sokker to what many countries do, and it's all for the benefit of the Polish user. The ONLY thing small nations get is it's easier to win the national league....which doesn't nothing because you still cant move forward.
(edited)
Because all calculations for sponsorship are based on Fanclub, then than is what comes first and having a massive userbase of people who have had teams for a long time (whether active or not) is what creates stability.
Once you have high fanclub average, you have a higher sponsorship and then you can buy players.
You keep saying "well the league is only this strong", yes, because we have hit a ceiling, so you can't get better and even if you could, there is no point to it, why spend more on wages than what you need to win the league?
---------------------------------------
Directed at Mikoos
Also by talking about cometer like he doesn't know what he is doing, you are proving my point that Polska Sokker is a different game to Australia/Small Nation sokker.
In Poland all you have to do is get the strongest team possible, even if it means buying lots of 35yos, and the money will follow. In Australia, that isn't how it works at all. If you are in Div II and stuck behind someone, pushing hard and failing will see you further behind because you are on such low sponsorship.
Please keep trying to argue this, because all you are doing is proving the point that Poland has a very different experience in Sokker to what many countries do, and it's all for the benefit of the Polish user. The ONLY thing small nations get is it's easier to win the national league....which doesn't nothing because you still cant move forward.
(edited)
"Btw.
Cometer was actually one of the best teams in his time and very experienced in the game both financially and tactically.
He must be very experienced to have a team with rating 32 after 2 years of playing :D"
LOL was this you trying to prove me wrong? Because all you did was prove me correct. It's a different game and just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it is wrong.
I have answered all your questions previously, and instead of being someone who wants to make it equal for all, you are someone who just wants to make it better for yourself. It's quite sad actually.
All I have to say to you is this:
“When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression." - Franklin Leonard
Cometer was actually one of the best teams in his time and very experienced in the game both financially and tactically.
He must be very experienced to have a team with rating 32 after 2 years of playing :D"
LOL was this you trying to prove me wrong? Because all you did was prove me correct. It's a different game and just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it is wrong.
I have answered all your questions previously, and instead of being someone who wants to make it equal for all, you are someone who just wants to make it better for yourself. It's quite sad actually.
All I have to say to you is this:
“When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression." - Franklin Leonard
If you are at the top of your country, surrounded by weaker teams, you hit a ceiling due to the difference in your fanclub members and the average of the league, meaning you hit a ceiling of how much you can actually bring in = FACT
Yes, but you get an advantage in players you can train without sacrificing results, which is in my opinion more important than sponsorship and ticket money.
For example for me sponsorship and ticket money are not very important, I could get 50% less from them and income from training would still guarantee me a huge profit every season. Teams in Australia can do it as well.
I love how people say this without realising just how big it is, so lets look at Mikoos teams and see what happens.
Mikoos - Transfers
Profit/Loss 18 437 500 $
Started game 04/10/2021 = 69 weeks
18 437 500 $ *95% due to the 5% lost when selling = 17 515 625 $ (this is assuming you have never sold a player under 23 and have always listed a player for $0, both of which are incorrect assumptions)
17 515 625 $ / 69 = 253 750 $ per week
Judging by the fact you are in League IV, you would be on between 250 000 $ to 287 500 $
So you say sponsorship is nothing, yet it is more per week than you have made on the TL.
Now the fact you are surrounded by teams that have been able to build up fanclub members longer or who have taken advantage of being able to take fanclub members from non-bots means your stadium income is regularly going to be higher as well.
So don't overplay what you have done on the TL, and underplay how easy Sokker Poland has made it for you with guaranteed sponsorship, especially when the Sponsorship is more than the TL money per week.
This highlights another issue RAUL brought up. There is no incentive to promoting in sokker, as even by the top league in Poland, Sponsorship only goes up another 30-50% from Div 4. And this is because of the broken system of putting everything on fanclub members and there being a lot of "FARM TEAMS" in Poland. If the system wasn't so broken in favor of Poland, then this issue wouldn't be an issue and it is how it is so easy for a new team to progress in Poland compared to most countries.
In most countries, there is a huge advantage to promoting, which is how it should be.
And you say you will just buy a bunch of 17-18yos, train and make a lot of money. Problem. Where are you getting the money to buy and train these players? Where is the money coming from to buy someone of this age that people will actually want to purchase back? And if you are are to train them well, where do you get the money for the coaches? The money isn't there in small countries when you start, and it isn't there for many seasons. Whilst your idea may sound simple, it once again proves how easy money is to come by when you start the game in Poland.
(edited)
Yes, but you get an advantage in players you can train without sacrificing results, which is in my opinion more important than sponsorship and ticket money.
For example for me sponsorship and ticket money are not very important, I could get 50% less from them and income from training would still guarantee me a huge profit every season. Teams in Australia can do it as well.
I love how people say this without realising just how big it is, so lets look at Mikoos teams and see what happens.
Mikoos - Transfers
Profit/Loss 18 437 500 $
Started game 04/10/2021 = 69 weeks
18 437 500 $ *95% due to the 5% lost when selling = 17 515 625 $ (this is assuming you have never sold a player under 23 and have always listed a player for $0, both of which are incorrect assumptions)
17 515 625 $ / 69 = 253 750 $ per week
Judging by the fact you are in League IV, you would be on between 250 000 $ to 287 500 $
So you say sponsorship is nothing, yet it is more per week than you have made on the TL.
Now the fact you are surrounded by teams that have been able to build up fanclub members longer or who have taken advantage of being able to take fanclub members from non-bots means your stadium income is regularly going to be higher as well.
So don't overplay what you have done on the TL, and underplay how easy Sokker Poland has made it for you with guaranteed sponsorship, especially when the Sponsorship is more than the TL money per week.
This highlights another issue RAUL brought up. There is no incentive to promoting in sokker, as even by the top league in Poland, Sponsorship only goes up another 30-50% from Div 4. And this is because of the broken system of putting everything on fanclub members and there being a lot of "FARM TEAMS" in Poland. If the system wasn't so broken in favor of Poland, then this issue wouldn't be an issue and it is how it is so easy for a new team to progress in Poland compared to most countries.
In most countries, there is a huge advantage to promoting, which is how it should be.
And you say you will just buy a bunch of 17-18yos, train and make a lot of money. Problem. Where are you getting the money to buy and train these players? Where is the money coming from to buy someone of this age that people will actually want to purchase back? And if you are are to train them well, where do you get the money for the coaches? The money isn't there in small countries when you start, and it isn't there for many seasons. Whilst your idea may sound simple, it once again proves how easy money is to come by when you start the game in Poland.
(edited)
Noone is saying the game is easy in Poland, what we are saying is it is easier to grow a strong team without the same ceilings - thus it being on fast forward.
You also have the option to try to push and see how far you can go, in small countries you get hit by a ceiling very quick which limits your ability to grow further. Your team strength and growth (not ranking) is limited by others.
The challenge in Poland is it is very hard to win the Polish Cup, or to win Div 1. But every week you get to play another human, you get to have a challenge every single match, you get to push for another league and work towards something. You get to watch your team strength grow if you are trying and not just sitting back letting your team just turn over. This makes it a lot more interesting.
You also have the option to try to push and see how far you can go, in small countries you get hit by a ceiling very quick which limits your ability to grow further. Your team strength and growth (not ranking) is limited by others.
The challenge in Poland is it is very hard to win the Polish Cup, or to win Div 1. But every week you get to play another human, you get to have a challenge every single match, you get to push for another league and work towards something. You get to watch your team strength grow if you are trying and not just sitting back letting your team just turn over. This makes it a lot more interesting.
But from our developer perspective we need to start from replacing old interface with the new code and pages. It is determined by limited budget, but also a logic - we cant develop new solutions that are still managed by old interface, becouse it would doble our work (and costs), especially that old sokker code is problematic.
Hello Raul, I understand a little what you say about the vision as a developer. I'm a php junior XD
The criticisms that I have been making for a while, the reason is that I do not see a general perspective of the changes that they want to execute. (macro) and THAT IS IMPORTANT, optimizes the work and lowers the workload to dev team.
A simple example is the issue of injuries, let's look at the chronology:
1. Injuries now affect twice as many games and high times are seen frequently.
2. Users complain in the forums.
3. They choose to partially eliminate injuries (friendly) in NT but it generates that the training must be modified.
4. This causes users to keep asking for modifications at the NT level, now eliminate injuries in all games, goodbye training in NT.
5. The complaints will continue to appear in the forum, because the root problem was never modified.
6. At some point they will understand that the time of the injuries was a mistake and they will have screwed up the NT system in the process of trial and error.
It was not necessary to punish users with extensive injuries to get them down the path of building a team with variants, going from playing 90 minutes to 180 minutes per week is already increasing the risk, and sooner or later the user would understand this.
I don't know if you understand the point, I hope you check that.
Regards
Hello Raul, I understand a little what you say about the vision as a developer. I'm a php junior XD
The criticisms that I have been making for a while, the reason is that I do not see a general perspective of the changes that they want to execute. (macro) and THAT IS IMPORTANT, optimizes the work and lowers the workload to dev team.
A simple example is the issue of injuries, let's look at the chronology:
1. Injuries now affect twice as many games and high times are seen frequently.
2. Users complain in the forums.
3. They choose to partially eliminate injuries (friendly) in NT but it generates that the training must be modified.
4. This causes users to keep asking for modifications at the NT level, now eliminate injuries in all games, goodbye training in NT.
5. The complaints will continue to appear in the forum, because the root problem was never modified.
6. At some point they will understand that the time of the injuries was a mistake and they will have screwed up the NT system in the process of trial and error.
It was not necessary to punish users with extensive injuries to get them down the path of building a team with variants, going from playing 90 minutes to 180 minutes per week is already increasing the risk, and sooner or later the user would understand this.
I don't know if you understand the point, I hope you check that.
Regards
Also by talking about cometer like he doesn't know what he is doing, you are proving my point that Polska Sokker is a different game to Australia/Small Nation sokker.
In Poland all you have to do is get the strongest team possible, even if it means buying lots of 35yos, and the money will follow. In Australia, that isn't how it works at all. If you are in Div II and stuck behind someone, pushing hard and failing will see you further behind because you are on such low sponsorship.
If someone has a team with rating 32 after two years of playing then it is obvious that it is his and only his fault, it is so much time that you can easily build team playing at 60+ just from money from training. There is no reason to be stuck in 2nd division in Australia after 2 years if you know what you are doing.
I see he made a new account in 2020 and now after 2.5 years he has a solid team playing at 55 rating. Much more reasonable :) It proves that his previous attempt was just bad.
I have answered all your questions previously, and instead of being someone who wants to make it equal for all, you are someone who just wants to make it better for yourself. It's quite sad actually.
Ah sorry, I missed few sentences, my mistake:
Also if I picked a bias sample, I would have selected Aus users who gave up on the game and who were losing matches - therefore worse supporter mood, and then on the Polish side, selected teams who were winning matches and therefore better supporter mood. This is why I included the number of wins and out of how many so you could see that if anything, I was intentionally selecting teams who should be closer in sponsorship based on their wins and loses, not further apart.
And if you picked your data like that (Australian users from A-league losing all the matches and having worse supporter mood vs Polish users who play in league with bots, winning everything with better rating and better supporter's mood) you would see that in these groups Australian users get better sponsorship than Polish users, despite having worse rating. Would this prove that Australia is easier than Poland? Nope, because again it wouldn't compare clubs in similar situation.
All that your data proves is that you get much better money losing everything in higher league being surrounded by better teams than winning everything in lower league with many bots.
Want to compare clubs between countries in similar situation? Compare:
- teams like mine with teams from places 7-9 in your A-league
- teams from places 10-12 in Polish 5th divisions with teams from places 10-12 in A-league
- teams from 1st place in Polish 6th divisions with teams from 1st place in Australian 2nd divisions
About my team - last Saturday I got 192 713 $ from sponsors , best I ever had. Here is my sponsorship after getting back to 5th division: Click for picture, last 2.5 seasons.
Is it better than similar teams in Australia?
I love how people say this without realising just how big it is, so lets look at Mikoos teams and see what happens.
Let me correct some things and give you additional data:
My total profit from transfers after all the taxes and minimal bid fees is 15 950 324 $
My total sponsorship income is 10 334 766 $ (together with pre-season bonuses)
My total tickets income is 13 715 329 $; I spend 8 905 438 $ on stadium upgrades and maintenance costs.
My total income from fan club is 895 625 $
But there is one extremely important thing that this data is missing - it should be about "increasing a team value from training", not about "profit from transfers". I spend 1 460 581 $ on all the transfers, but my my players are currently worth about 33 750 000 $. This adds with my transfer profit to get a real value of the training. I don't need to sell players to recognise their increasing value as a profit. If I wanted/needed more cash in my account I could sell some players and replace them with cheap youths suitable for training, like I always do when I believe it's a good moment for selling a player.
So: about 25 000 000 $ from sponsorship + tickets + fan club, about 50 000 000 $ from training.
And do I use training optimally? Absolutely not, in the past I should have tried to find more top talents for training, replacing my worse talents more often, but I was often too lazy to do that. Also my choices in what skills any type of players I trained were not optimal. There are also times where I don't use all my training slots, for example now I only train 9 players, because I'm too lazy to buy a 10th after selling one.
I'm sure there are users that can make much more from training. Later on this comment I will show an example.
This highlights another issue RAUL brought up. There is no incentive to promoting in sokker, as even by the top league in Poland, Sponsorship only goes up another 30-50% from Div 4. And this is because of the broken system of putting everything on fanclub members and there being a lot of "FARM TEAMS" in Poland. If the system wasn't so broken in favor of Poland, then this issue wouldn't be an issue and it is how it is so easy for a new team to progress in Poland compared to most countries.
Well, the incentive should just be playing for titles, it is the point of the game. I obviously can't do that with my current resources in Poland, there is no point in advancing to 4th or 3rd division just to meet a wall there. If I started in Australia I would be now a "farm team" as well, but I would be that farm team somewhere in A-league.
You can't make top leagues in Poland profitable compared to being in lower leagues, because it would cause top teams being richer and richer staying there on top, while worse team could never catch up... until it would balance itself by increasing demand in top players (because everyone would want top players knowing it's worth paying on top) = hugely increasing their prices = making the top not being profitable again because of old players losing much more value over time.
And you say you will just buy a bunch of 17-18yos, train and make a lot of money. Problem. Where are you getting the money to buy and train these players? Where is the money coming from to buy someone of this age that people will actually want to purchase back?
Starting money is enough to buy good enough players for training. Just look at my players and how much money I paid for them... let's look at list of all players I trained
2021-10-05 Adrian Hubchev - bought for 18 250 $, currently worth estimated 4 000 000 $
2021-10-05 Dimitri Kartozia - bought for 10 250 $, sold after 6 weeks for 153 000 $
2021-10-06 Ondřej Mastný - bought for 5 250 $, sold after 6 weeks for 125 000 $
2021-10-06 Fikrət Həmidov - bought for 27 750 $, currently worth estimated 6 000 000 $
2021-10-07 Şazi Yedivar - bought for 30 000 $, sold after 65 weeks for 5 282 000 $
2021-10-08 René Cvarda - bought for 2 750 $, sold after 31 weeks for 780 332 $
2021-10-13 Adrien Poelemans - bought for 9 500 $, currently worth estimated 3 000 000 $
2021-10-15 Florian Rzewuski - bought for 22 250 $, sold after 6 weeks for 500 000 $
2021-10-16 Aleksander Kryszak - bought for 24 500 $, sold after 48 weeks for 3 959 750 $
2021-10-18 Tinel Chiriac - bought for 7 250 $, sold after 9 weeks for 1 326 797 $
2021-11-11 Romuald Cieciula - bought for 11 000 $, currently worth estimated 7 000 000 $
2021-11-28 Filiberto Comel - bought for 11 250 $, sold after 40 weeks for 1 353 750 $
2021-12-03 Vladimir Torres - bought for 152 000 $, sold after 16 weeks for 2 080 875 $
2021-12-08 Eracle Manitta - bought for 38 750 $, currently worth estimated 8 000 000 $
2022-01-04 Florinel Blejan - bought for 45 500 $, sold after 21 weeks for 797 000 $
2022-03-14 Emir Sobrecueva - bought for 19 000 $, sold after 24 weeks for 588 000 $
2022-05-21 Elemér Hunya - bought for 9 750 $, sold after 34 weeks for 588 000 $
2022-09-11 Sansone Dimunno - bought for 325 000 $, currently worth estimated 2 000 000 $
2022-11-05 Jean-Jacques Moerman - bought for 75 000 $, currently worth estimated 2 500 000 $
You can see players bought in my first 2 weeks of playing for low money and how much they were sold for / worth now. At the beginning I was spending ~42 500 $ weekly on coaches until I got money from selling my players (mostly Chiriac and Rzewuski, a bit of money from Kartozia and Mastný as well), and it was a point where I could invest much more money into coaches - but it's not a required part of making a profit from training, you just need "good enough" coaches, which don't eat that much money.
I also promoted back then to higher division, but it didn't matter much - if I was in 6th division for one more season and I ever ran out of money I could fuel my training by more sells. Same way it didn't matter next season when i then got demoted thanks to league reform and I was losing money weekly.
Now making money at the beginning is probably even easier than it was before, as there are is still a lot of cheap youths that you can buy, and after a bit of training they go for better money thanks to inflation :)
Like this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this and this, all transfers made by one team which started few months ago. Do you think he was able to make these transfers because he is in Poland? By the time he got promoted to 5th division he already made a lot of money from selling young players.
And if you are are to train them well, where do you get the money for the coaches? The money isn't there in small countries when you start, and it isn't there for many seasons. Whilst your idea may sound simple, it once again proves how easy money is to come by when you start the game in Poland.
There is enough money to be made from 3 sources: sponsors money, weekly home league match, weekly friendly match (just send many away friendly requests to good teams with great stadiums to get nice money from that), it's enough to survive up to your first big sell. Doesn't matter much if you are in Poland or not. But as I said, I believe a weekly income for beginners should be increased by making their fan clubs and stadiums better (and making bigger fan clubs for bots as well), this would help mostly in countries where new teams divisions are filled with bots.
In Poland all you have to do is get the strongest team possible, even if it means buying lots of 35yos, and the money will follow. In Australia, that isn't how it works at all. If you are in Div II and stuck behind someone, pushing hard and failing will see you further behind because you are on such low sponsorship.
If someone has a team with rating 32 after two years of playing then it is obvious that it is his and only his fault, it is so much time that you can easily build team playing at 60+ just from money from training. There is no reason to be stuck in 2nd division in Australia after 2 years if you know what you are doing.
I see he made a new account in 2020 and now after 2.5 years he has a solid team playing at 55 rating. Much more reasonable :) It proves that his previous attempt was just bad.
I have answered all your questions previously, and instead of being someone who wants to make it equal for all, you are someone who just wants to make it better for yourself. It's quite sad actually.
Ah sorry, I missed few sentences, my mistake:
Also if I picked a bias sample, I would have selected Aus users who gave up on the game and who were losing matches - therefore worse supporter mood, and then on the Polish side, selected teams who were winning matches and therefore better supporter mood. This is why I included the number of wins and out of how many so you could see that if anything, I was intentionally selecting teams who should be closer in sponsorship based on their wins and loses, not further apart.
And if you picked your data like that (Australian users from A-league losing all the matches and having worse supporter mood vs Polish users who play in league with bots, winning everything with better rating and better supporter's mood) you would see that in these groups Australian users get better sponsorship than Polish users, despite having worse rating. Would this prove that Australia is easier than Poland? Nope, because again it wouldn't compare clubs in similar situation.
All that your data proves is that you get much better money losing everything in higher league being surrounded by better teams than winning everything in lower league with many bots.
Want to compare clubs between countries in similar situation? Compare:
- teams like mine with teams from places 7-9 in your A-league
- teams from places 10-12 in Polish 5th divisions with teams from places 10-12 in A-league
- teams from 1st place in Polish 6th divisions with teams from 1st place in Australian 2nd divisions
About my team - last Saturday I got 192 713 $ from sponsors , best I ever had. Here is my sponsorship after getting back to 5th division: Click for picture, last 2.5 seasons.
Is it better than similar teams in Australia?
I love how people say this without realising just how big it is, so lets look at Mikoos teams and see what happens.
Let me correct some things and give you additional data:
My total profit from transfers after all the taxes and minimal bid fees is 15 950 324 $
My total sponsorship income is 10 334 766 $ (together with pre-season bonuses)
My total tickets income is 13 715 329 $; I spend 8 905 438 $ on stadium upgrades and maintenance costs.
My total income from fan club is 895 625 $
But there is one extremely important thing that this data is missing - it should be about "increasing a team value from training", not about "profit from transfers". I spend 1 460 581 $ on all the transfers, but my my players are currently worth about 33 750 000 $. This adds with my transfer profit to get a real value of the training. I don't need to sell players to recognise their increasing value as a profit. If I wanted/needed more cash in my account I could sell some players and replace them with cheap youths suitable for training, like I always do when I believe it's a good moment for selling a player.
So: about 25 000 000 $ from sponsorship + tickets + fan club, about 50 000 000 $ from training.
And do I use training optimally? Absolutely not, in the past I should have tried to find more top talents for training, replacing my worse talents more often, but I was often too lazy to do that. Also my choices in what skills any type of players I trained were not optimal. There are also times where I don't use all my training slots, for example now I only train 9 players, because I'm too lazy to buy a 10th after selling one.
I'm sure there are users that can make much more from training. Later on this comment I will show an example.
This highlights another issue RAUL brought up. There is no incentive to promoting in sokker, as even by the top league in Poland, Sponsorship only goes up another 30-50% from Div 4. And this is because of the broken system of putting everything on fanclub members and there being a lot of "FARM TEAMS" in Poland. If the system wasn't so broken in favor of Poland, then this issue wouldn't be an issue and it is how it is so easy for a new team to progress in Poland compared to most countries.
Well, the incentive should just be playing for titles, it is the point of the game. I obviously can't do that with my current resources in Poland, there is no point in advancing to 4th or 3rd division just to meet a wall there. If I started in Australia I would be now a "farm team" as well, but I would be that farm team somewhere in A-league.
You can't make top leagues in Poland profitable compared to being in lower leagues, because it would cause top teams being richer and richer staying there on top, while worse team could never catch up... until it would balance itself by increasing demand in top players (because everyone would want top players knowing it's worth paying on top) = hugely increasing their prices = making the top not being profitable again because of old players losing much more value over time.
And you say you will just buy a bunch of 17-18yos, train and make a lot of money. Problem. Where are you getting the money to buy and train these players? Where is the money coming from to buy someone of this age that people will actually want to purchase back?
Starting money is enough to buy good enough players for training. Just look at my players and how much money I paid for them... let's look at list of all players I trained
2021-10-05 Adrian Hubchev - bought for 18 250 $, currently worth estimated 4 000 000 $
2021-10-05 Dimitri Kartozia - bought for 10 250 $, sold after 6 weeks for 153 000 $
2021-10-06 Ondřej Mastný - bought for 5 250 $, sold after 6 weeks for 125 000 $
2021-10-06 Fikrət Həmidov - bought for 27 750 $, currently worth estimated 6 000 000 $
2021-10-07 Şazi Yedivar - bought for 30 000 $, sold after 65 weeks for 5 282 000 $
2021-10-08 René Cvarda - bought for 2 750 $, sold after 31 weeks for 780 332 $
2021-10-13 Adrien Poelemans - bought for 9 500 $, currently worth estimated 3 000 000 $
2021-10-15 Florian Rzewuski - bought for 22 250 $, sold after 6 weeks for 500 000 $
2021-10-16 Aleksander Kryszak - bought for 24 500 $, sold after 48 weeks for 3 959 750 $
2021-10-18 Tinel Chiriac - bought for 7 250 $, sold after 9 weeks for 1 326 797 $
2021-11-11 Romuald Cieciula - bought for 11 000 $, currently worth estimated 7 000 000 $
2021-11-28 Filiberto Comel - bought for 11 250 $, sold after 40 weeks for 1 353 750 $
2021-12-03 Vladimir Torres - bought for 152 000 $, sold after 16 weeks for 2 080 875 $
2021-12-08 Eracle Manitta - bought for 38 750 $, currently worth estimated 8 000 000 $
2022-01-04 Florinel Blejan - bought for 45 500 $, sold after 21 weeks for 797 000 $
2022-03-14 Emir Sobrecueva - bought for 19 000 $, sold after 24 weeks for 588 000 $
2022-05-21 Elemér Hunya - bought for 9 750 $, sold after 34 weeks for 588 000 $
2022-09-11 Sansone Dimunno - bought for 325 000 $, currently worth estimated 2 000 000 $
2022-11-05 Jean-Jacques Moerman - bought for 75 000 $, currently worth estimated 2 500 000 $
You can see players bought in my first 2 weeks of playing for low money and how much they were sold for / worth now. At the beginning I was spending ~42 500 $ weekly on coaches until I got money from selling my players (mostly Chiriac and Rzewuski, a bit of money from Kartozia and Mastný as well), and it was a point where I could invest much more money into coaches - but it's not a required part of making a profit from training, you just need "good enough" coaches, which don't eat that much money.
I also promoted back then to higher division, but it didn't matter much - if I was in 6th division for one more season and I ever ran out of money I could fuel my training by more sells. Same way it didn't matter next season when i then got demoted thanks to league reform and I was losing money weekly.
Now making money at the beginning is probably even easier than it was before, as there are is still a lot of cheap youths that you can buy, and after a bit of training they go for better money thanks to inflation :)
Like this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this and this, all transfers made by one team which started few months ago. Do you think he was able to make these transfers because he is in Poland? By the time he got promoted to 5th division he already made a lot of money from selling young players.
And if you are are to train them well, where do you get the money for the coaches? The money isn't there in small countries when you start, and it isn't there for many seasons. Whilst your idea may sound simple, it once again proves how easy money is to come by when you start the game in Poland.
There is enough money to be made from 3 sources: sponsors money, weekly home league match, weekly friendly match (just send many away friendly requests to good teams with great stadiums to get nice money from that), it's enough to survive up to your first big sell. Doesn't matter much if you are in Poland or not. But as I said, I believe a weekly income for beginners should be increased by making their fan clubs and stadiums better (and making bigger fan clubs for bots as well), this would help mostly in countries where new teams divisions are filled with bots.
That's nice, but have you ever made a profit of 17 million euro on 1 player?
I did :p
https://sokker.org/transfers_player/ID_human/34511288
(edited)
I did :p
https://sokker.org/transfers_player/ID_human/34511288
(edited)
Bragging against a team, started in 2021 :-p
What is the most impressive?
Make 17M profit from a 1€ player or make 17M profit from a 16M € player :-p
Not by chance, one of the best players was named Samba, a celebration of football :-)
What is the most impressive?
Make 17M profit from a 1€ player or make 17M profit from a 16M € player :-p
Not by chance, one of the best players was named Samba, a celebration of football :-)
With bugs? Or without one week later? Or starting next season?
With bugs!
We're accustomed with them, sometimes we need them... we are addicted.
We're accustomed with them, sometimes we need them... we are addicted.
One week later also will be with bugs, and one season later also, so... :P