Subject: »[change] New Structure and promotions and mixing every 4

To be fair, I think it's more the "perceived" making it easier to get to the top.

It needs to be easier for human managed teams to have a chance to get past inactive or bot teams, but it will never be easy to get to the actual top (ie against 10yo teams).

So I think it needs to have the perception of being easy to get to the top, the reality of being able to get past bots quicker, yet still have enough skill involved that a well managed old team will always be a challenge

If I understoot correctly all countries now have 3 divisions, except the large countries. That means in all countries just 2 promotions possible, and still large gaps between new teams and strong teams that are stuck in second division. And now even larger gaps because in some countries 4th and 3th division are put together.

I really hope a new and better structure will be implemented next season with more promotion options and more equal teams in divisions/leagues.

The best structure is, as posted in first post, this one:
1st division: 1 league
2nd division: 2 leagues
3th division: 4 leagues
4th division: 8 leagues
(if needed a extra division)
5th division: 1 large league in which all new managers start in a season, and always play a match (not like what happens now in youth leagues, teams without a match). The best 8 human controled teams always promote to 4th division, or even all human controled teams promote to 4th division, depending of how many bot teams need to be replaced.

This way there are not just 2 promotions, but 4, which is really much more fun. And more teams with equal strenght will be in the same division/league, also way better for everyone.

I hope that in my country the new division system will be x2. I am relegating from league with rating 53.5 (excluding me) and going to league with rating 25.4


1st Div: 1 league = 12 teams
2nd div: 2 leagues = 24 teams (36 totally)
3rd div: 4 leagues = 48 teams (84 totally)
4th div: 8 leagues = 96 teams (170 totally)
5th div: 16 leagues = 192 teams (362 totally)

Same here, now in a division with 4 active managers, 2 who fight for first place this season if I sell the older players. If not, I will win this league pretty easy I think.

No fun. With that new structure things will be different.

1st div: 1 league = 12 teams
2nd div: 2 leagues = 24 teams (36 totally)
3rd div: 4 leagues = 48 teams (84 totally)
+ 1 large bottom league for all new managers who start that season, and at least a few bots (8 or so) so 2 new managers won't only face eachother. Ofcourse the human controlled team should always play matches! And if possible all should promote to 3th division to replace bot teams or when botteams are replaced, a normal promotion / degradation.

And still 3 promotions possible!!

If a country like the Netherlands will grow again, an new 4th division can be added with 4 or 8 leagues.


(edited)

+1

I was thinking about that today. The new structure os divisions and the difference between the old and the new users. There's no way. I know the dinosaurs of sokker must be respected, but thinking about the future of this game we can't be selfish. That's why I think the changes and improvements must be implemented prioritizing new users. Every single time you make a change you must ask yourself: what a new user would think about this?
If you are reforming the game think about the old users, it is pointless. It has to be atractive to new players.

So, back to the topic, it's not atractive for a new player to be stucked in the 4th forever because 3rd division teams have above 50 grades. It would require a patience that just a very selected group would have. The world is not the same it was 15 or 10 years ago. Just like achmid said, new users have to believe, even if it is never going to happen, that they can achieve the highest levels.

Finally, my proposal of the league system (leagues with 12 teams):

1st div: 1 league/ 2 relegated (11th and 12th) + 2 send to play-offs (10th and 9th)

2nd div: 2 leagues/ 4 relegated (11th and 12th) + 4 send to play-offs (10th and 9th)/ 2 promoted (1st) + 2 send to play-offs (2nd) -> total of 36 teams

3rd div: 4 leagues/ 8 relegated (11th and 12th) + 8 send to play-offs (10th and 9th)/ 4 promoted (1st) + 4 send to play-offs (2nd) -> total of 84 teams

following the same structure...
4th div: 8 leagues -> total of 180 teams
5th div: 16 leagues -> total of 372 teams
6th div: 32 leagues -> total of 756 teams
.
.
.
With 12 teams, I think it's kind of unfair let just one team "win". So, give the 2nd place the chance of promotion;
Plus, ending this thing of relegate half of the league. 4 out of 12 is a fair number (1/3);
End the dependence between the leagues. If you are in the bottom of the league, you are relegated. If you are on the top, you are promoted. Simple. Today, to know if you will be promoted or face a play-off, you have to compare your team with the other league champions of your division.

Just like achmid said, new users have to believe, even if it is never going to happen, that they can achieve the highest levels.
I think it's mostly important for new users to know, that this game demands long term planing and it's also a manager game, it's also about money.

So, back to the topic, it's not atractive for a new player to be stucked in the 4th forever because 3rd division teams have above 50 grades.
If they plan their training in such a way, so that they can sell their trainees in a high price after 3-4 seasons, then they can make a rating of 50 and get to second league in just 5 seasons. If...

copied from another topic


with 12 teams in a league the numbers would be

1st Div: 1 league = 12 teams
2nd div: 2 leagues = 24 teams (36 totally)
3rd div: 4 leagues = 48 teams (84 totally)
4th div: 8 leagues = 96 teams (170 totally)
5th div: 16 leagues = 192 teams (362 totally)


the promotion system could be like this
1st - promoting directly
2nd - play off
.................
9th - play off
10th - play off
11th - relegating directly
12th - relegating directly



the x2 division system could be changed to x4 for lower divisions in bigger countries.

1st - 1/2 promoting directly, 1/2 play off
.................
9th - play off
10th - play off
11th - relegating directly
12th - relegating directly

Exactly slavista. I miscalculated starting from the 4th division. But that is the idea. Also the x4 division could really be applied for lower divisions, but I would rather following the x2 till the end.

If they plan their training in such a way, so that they can sell their trainees in a high price after 3-4 seasons, then they can make a rating of 50 and get to second league in just 5 seasons. If...

And tsolias, I think you are thinking about "present you" being a new user. You have to think about the people who come here by theirselves, they have nobady to point a path to them. I say this because I had my cousin in the past to teach me closely.

I know it's kind of depressing, but do you think the avarage people in the 2020/2021 world would spend the equivalent to 1 year or more just to MAYBE get promoted from 4th to 3rd division?
If your answer is yes, we are going to have a new game for sure, but maybe with the same user's base.

"...new user...they have nobady to point a path to them..."
I totally agree with you. That's why people demanded on this forum (dev-forum) a better guide for newbies and if I remember right, devs told this will be done.

"...do you think the avarage people in the 2020/2021 world would spend the equivalent to 1 year or more just to MAYBE get promoted from 4th to 3rd division?..."
No, I do not believe it and I do not believe that sokker-manager is or should be a game for avarage people.
I mostly believe it's a game with many little secrets that can make a big difference and it demands patience and ability to plan for the longer term. I like it this way. :)