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Subpage under development, new version coming soon!

Subject: [change] Version 2 New Competition Structure

2020-05-21 01:45:04
Version 2.2 New Competition Structure is here. This is the collective work of many users especially slavista, OLIVER ATON and myself. The main update to this, is giving a Continental cup to those too high to qualify for the league cup. This ensures the best from each country, within each continent, has a chance to play off for the best team in the continent.
It also accounts for the fact that many countries finish their cup at different stages of the season.

For the new additions, scroll to the bottom



***League:***
8 clubs in a league playing home-away system against each other, 14 rounds with play off (the same system as today only without week 15 and week 0). Play-off is played on Wednesday at week 14. Teams which don't play League Play-off can arrange warm-up match on Wednesday at week 14. It is arranged like friendly but it has the same effects on training as official matches.


***International cup:***

The combination of league and cup system

level 1- 8 groups of 8 teams (64 teams)
level 2- 32 groups of 8 teams (256)
level 3- 128 groups of 8 teams (1024)
level 4- 512 groups of 8 teams (4096)
level 5- 2048 groups of 8 teams (16384)
21824 teams in total

Group stage

1) 8 teams in each group - they play once with each other - 7 rounds

Play-off stage
2) Teams placed 1st to 4th in group stage continue to play in Championship group competing for final 1th to 64th position and teams placed 5th to 8th in the group stage play Relegation group for final 65th to 128th position

3) The system of draws in the play-off stage is demonstrated on the picture below



8 groups create one **Isolated cup within the level. On the picture, you can see a small part of such isolated Cup with groups A B C D E F G H.

level 1- 8 groups (1 isolated cup)
level 2- 32 groups (4 isolated cups)
level 3- 128 groups (16 isolated cups)
level 4- 512 groups (64 isolated cups)
level 5- 2048 groups (256 isolated cups)

The draw of the first play-off round in Championship group is: 1st in group A vs 4th in B; 2nd in A vs 3rd in B; 3rd in A vs 2nd in B and 4th in A vs 1st in B
The draw of the first play-off round in Relegation group is: 5st in group A vs 8th in B; 6th in A vs 7th in B; 7th in A vs 6th in B and 8th in A vs 5th in B

4)
Every team battles for reaching the better half of the range he is competing in the current round. A team that wins in 1-16. range in the second round plays in range 1-8. in the third round and a team that loses plays in range 9-16.

5) Every team plays 12 matches (7 group stage + 5 play-off stage) and every team reaches a certain position between 1th and 64th place at the end of the cup

6) After the play-off stage all teams at the same level are sorted by: 1) Final position in their cup 2) Points in group stage 3) Scored combined in group stage and play-off stage

7) The system of play-off is the same as in the League nowadays.
Example: In level 2 there are 256 teams in 32 groups. 8 best teams are promoted directly. Another 24 teams (9-32th place in level 2) play play-off for promotion. 32 worst teams (225-256th place in level 2) are relegated directly. Other 96 teams (129-224th place) play qualification for remaining in level 2.

8) Teams that don't play International Cup Play-off can arrange warm-up match on Wednesday week 13. It is arranged like friendly but it has the same effects on training as official matches.


***National cup:***

The same system as nowadays. All teams in the country participate. Every round the pool of teams is reduced by half until the final. If you are eliminated from the National Cup and you don't participate in the League Cup you can arrange a friendly match.


***League cup:***
This competition is only for weaker teams who were eliminated from the National cup early. It has a smaller prestige and bonus effects on training than the National cup, but it gives users another chance to compete in the cup with opponents who are closer to their level. Teams within a country will compete against only those within their Division.

***REGIONAL CUP***

This cup is designed for the teams within a country that are too high to qualify for the league cup/still in the national cup when the league cup stands. At this stage I have listed up to a 512 team draw, but currently no continent requires this, so the cup could start later (this is just in there to show the ability to expand when sokker expands, which is something the DEVs want ideas to do)

It will work as a standard cup draw, where you know who is next up depending on who wins.

To account for finishing the national cup at different times, there will be Reserved Places in future rounds of the cup, which those knocked out/finished their national cup, will slide in to. As these are the best teams from a bigger country anyway, they were always likely to make it to that point in the cup, so it doesn't change much.

Here is an example of this reserved spots working, where country B still had one round to go in their cup, and country C still had two rounds to go in their cup (note this is just an example of a very small competition because looking at a full 256 draw would make it too small in the forum)



Example: For somewhere like the Asian region, who would require a 256 draw, All countries except Indonesia, China and Viet Nam would be commencing with their full team list at the start of the cup (Indonesia and China would be missing their finalists, and Viet Nam missing their final 8.

Indonesia and Zhonghou finalists would join reserved places at the 128 team stage (round 2) along with Viet Nams Quarter final losers, Viet Nams Semi final losers would join at 64 team stage, and Viet Nam finalists would join at the 32 team stage.

This has been tested in every region, and would work given current and future nations within each region.


The major benefits of this continental cup are:

- it allows for competition within regions
- it gives something for those who do not qualify for the league cup, a competition to join (this is especially important in small nations who will have a national cup finishing before the league cup even starts)
- it stops teams from "camping" in Div II just so they can win the League Cup
- It provides great banter between nations, and a competitive competition which will see different teams winning each year
- By limiting to just those who don't qualify for the League Cup, it limits the size of the draw, meaning it can start later in the season, and each continental cup can accommodate each region (even Europe).



*When you are eliminated from National Cup/League cup and you don't play any cup match next week, you can arrange a friendly. Friendlies, unlike official matches, have only minimal impact on training.


(edited)
2020-05-21 10:58:49
An impressive work, very usefull. I hope it will help dev's work too, because is full of good ideas!!
2020-05-21 13:33:24
Still fighting for regional cups? ;)

i can admit, that it could be interesting thought how to involve better teams than just teams from lover divisions in division cup.
Maybe it's also some good idea, to make that additional cups less effective than major cup (but still more than friendlies).
2020-05-21 14:37:53
Pushing because I want, and the community wants ;) Plus it would be fun for all those involved, and a lot of people would and could be involved.

Would definitely be a huge benefit for the community, and having it on at the same time as the league cup is perfect timing.

Oh and that it works for all continents/regions, is a massive positive (using the reserved feature as outlined)
2020-05-21 14:45:25
Well, it's interesting to design 3rd option for eliminated from cup and to good for playing in league cups (or from too small countries to have league cups, as they are designed rather for bigger countries).

My only concern is, how it will work with some bigger nations? in countries with 3 divisions structure you end your cup quite fast, its possible to make that- what with polish or italian teams? their 3rd or 2nd div. teams playing much longer in national cup, being eliminated in week 9-10. And cup still goes on for them - almost till the end of season.
2020-05-21 15:46:37
Well that would have to be a decision you decide to make. The format is there, but you would need to decide the details. (A bit like how how in your League cup idea, especially bigger nations, a 2nd div teams may struggle to have a cup at all after their national cup).

It would be better to have an eastern and western europe (or some other split), and even better again if it was just stated in the rules, anyone who has a national cup match from week X (maybe 9) onwards, has enough scheduled matches, and won't be in the continental cup (I mean this is no different to without the continental cup for them, when they wouldn't have anything after either). Or even better yet, a bit of both. This way the love gets shared around a bit more, could probably push it out to week 10 knockouts too. --- This was an old idea for if the national cup doesn't get split

It would be even better again, if you decide to split the National cups in to top 3 division for the A-Cup (or top 64 players) and the rest for the B-Cup as in a previous post

I mean if the game got so big, everyone had 3000 users etc. it wouldn't work as it is outlined here, but adaptions can be made. This would be the same with a league cup, or any other cup following the national cup, adaptions would be made (ie with league cup, even now it would be impossible for all div 2's to finish a cup as the 32 div 2's require 5 rounds to finish, meaning they would need to be knocked out in week 9, which only just occurs in Poland at present, so will need to run with reduced numbers once Poland hits the 4112 mark).

This competition would really struggle if it got reduced to less than 14 weeks, unless you decided to do the two cup national cup system. I'm certainly happy to talk necessary restrictions or splits if it is something you are truly interested in, although you would have to help me in the best way/most accepted way to split europe (if necessary), and then would need to talk to the coders on how to create it (but given there are generators online, I'm sure it can be done without too much difficulty).

And then once it is in play, if it is not perfect, or some managers still don't qualify for this due to whatever limitations may or may not be in play, then the community will find an answer as it always does


(edited)
2020-05-22 10:58:22
Just needed to point out, for anyone not understanding the international cup.

There is a guaranteed match every week with the international cup. Not only do the top 4 go to a cup phase, but the bottom 4 go to a separate cup phase (to determine the order of relegation matches).

It has been said that this format does not allow for 2 matches every week, but it does, and had been designed to do so.

There will be no difference between this option, and the first option in terms of getting your player training.

This option does however allow for better variety of competition, both in who you play, but the type of competitions and structure of competitions.

Keep this in mind when voting for anyone who stated +1
2020-05-23 01:07:04
For me still the best format. This option wasn t in the first poll where i voted 12 teams in a league and 2 league matches a week. After reconsideration it is just overkill having 4 matches a week. I like this format of sokker, slow game real life just week 15 and 0 where useless. This format keeps that in mind + better cup format = more official matches for lower teams
2020-05-23 09:30:37
who cares, Devs have made their minds and their effort to look like they listen to the community cannot be taken seriously. And I highly doubt that the last voting was clear. I know many sokker users and I doubt that majority of users (63%) of users would vote for the system with 12 teams and 2 league matches per week. As someone pointed out, It is suspicious that these pools are outside of the Sokker were the results can be easily manipulated.
(edited)
2020-05-23 10:18:56
Well, they added this concept to the poll...
Without the ridiculous stuff, like 1 day to update new season calendar, like international cup where you can lose all games and still be rewarded by extra official matched, like regional cup with sole purpose to reward national cup drop-outs.

Just because there are a lot of you in this 14-week echo chamber, it doesn't mean that this is without flaws.
2020-05-23 11:06:35
LOL!! Now you are talking nonsense.
"Without the ridiculous stuff, like 1 day to update new season calendar" - well the days don't have to be set in place, and you think a 12 week structure will be any longer?
"like international cup where you can lose all games and still be rewarded by extra official matched" - this was made to be in line with what the DEVs wanted, it was not in the original plan, which was a league
"regional cup with sole purpose to reward national cup drop-outs" - Actually that is the League cup which the DEVs wanted, not the regional cup. The regional cup is for the top teams in each country.

So please don't start making up stuff to try and fit an agenda, you are trying to insert bad points where they don't exist and spread lies.
2020-05-23 11:08:54
I agree slavista, it all seems too convenient when there is almost no support for that in the forums.

I don't know who is messing with the votes, but they have obviously been manipulated.

But it's ok, if the game takes that turn, the game will be dead in 2 years, and I will have been out a lot longer before that. So really it is no different to now, where it was likely to finish by the end of this year anyway
2020-05-23 11:40:42
Well, make the the schedule where there is more than 1 day between last and the first game of the season. You can clearly see it, from all of their schedules, that they want some space to rebuild and update schedule for the new season.

Quote from the first page of this topic:
Yes season starts two days later, because devs want a shorter season.
I am happy to have 15 weeks but it isn't what the devs want.


I am guessing that you are not happy with 15 weeks anymore?
Also, it turns out that devs are okay with 15 weeks.

Your defense is basically, "the ideas of the devs are worse."
2020-05-23 11:43:39
Also, accusing them of rigging the polls... It is pathetic.

Take a moment to realize that 1/3 of the users are from one country, and that they probably want 12-team league system regardless of anything else.
2020-05-23 13:54:08
Off course they want a 12 team league they got the most users, it just benefits Poland. But not the small countries.
2020-05-29 12:47:58
Sorry to everyone who liked these changes, which were obviously the majority of users who visited the development forum, the DEVs have decided their manipulated poll was better, and you get twice as much of the same as now, but with weaker teams and bots in your league instead. No new competition, no new opponents, no new friends.

And to the 59 small countries with less than 40 users. RIP. It was nice knowing you